Transcript
Tonight on Piers Morgan on Censor, one of the most infamous men in the world. Andrew Tate's misogynistic tirade has been viewed billions of times online. He's now been effectively banned, though, from the internet. He doesn't think that's fair. Tonight, I'm going to try and work out if it is.
from london this is piers morgan uncensored well good evening from london and welcome to special edition of piers morgan uncensored andrew tate one-on-one
He's the most famous man you've probably never heard of, with billions of views online. At one point this year, more people were searching Google for Andrew Tate than Donald Trump or Kim Kardashian. A former professional kickboxer, he was kicked off Big Brother in 2016 after a video emerged of him striking a woman. And what they now both claim was the consensual sex game. He's since made millions as a pornographer and casino owner in Romania, but it's his online videos that have made him notorious across the world.
posing as a playboy with fast cars, cigars, weapons and cash. He rants about his often scandalous views on women. Or instruct a female to provide sustenance. Cook. So I think my sister is her husband's property, yes.
so young man.
They can get as rich as him by paying for his digital life lessons. I have 100 business tips I'm going to teach you, which will allow you to make your own money instantly. But amid a global media backlash, the net has closed on Andrew Tate. While millions still share his videos, he's effectively banned from the web, booted off Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok. To his fans, he's a misunderstood satirist and a victim of big tech censorship. To many others, he's a malicious misogynist.
try and get to the truth.
Well, some of the opinions Andrew Tate shares in his videos are undeniably deeply offensive. We're going to show you some of them on this show. I think you should see them for yourself, not simply hear what he says about them or what other people say about them. Tens of millions of people across the world follow Andrew Tate, and with a big following comes a big responsibility, as well as a public interest in holding his views to account. If outrageous opinions are read aloud, they can be challenged and exposed for what they are.
silenced.
the person holding these views can become a martyr. So that's why I invited Andrew Tate to come here tonight, and he joins me now live. So, Andrew, well, welcome, first of all. You've come all the way from Romania to do this interview. Correct. Correct.
What do you hope to achieve from this interview? Why are you here?
It'd be interesting to have a conversation with you. You've certainly been the subject of your own divided opinions in the world. There's a lot of people who would say some of the things you say are perhaps dangerous or toxic.
So I thought you'd be a good person to speak to about this subject. I didn't know much about you before this year, and then I suddenly became very aware of you, as the world did, because, as I said earlier,
You were the number one
subject searched on Google ahead of Donald Trump. - Yeah. - I don't think it was even possible. Why did you get suddenly so popular/infamous, do you think? I exploded. I certainly didn't do that with magic. I've been on the internet for a very long time.
I think in the world we live in now, as the other side, the other side, the people who disagree with me, as they get more and more tyrannical in their censorships and their hate mobs, etc., as standard masculine practices are deemed toxic, I didn't put a magic spell on everybody. I managed to accumulate a large amount of affinity.
with the male populace across the Western world, because I'm simply saying things that many men believe, think and feel? The problem I would say is, I want to play you just a clip off the top. This is from Joe Rogan, who's somebody I absolutely love. Sure. And I think it explains to me what my... what I presume my issue with you is going to be, right? Correct. All right, let's see. And you have absolutely got the right to try and persuade me otherwise. Sure. But Joe Rogan said this about you.
My 12-year-old and my 14-year-old asked me about Andrew Tate. And what'd you say? What'd you say? I said he's a legit world champion kickboxer. I go, I like him a lot. Why do you like him? And I was asking him. And they said he says a lot of funny stuff on Twitter and TikTok. He f***ed up with the misogynist. Yes. Because if he didn't do that, if he just did the pro male stuff...
So I thought that was interesting because when I've gone over everything that's been at the centre of the debate about Andrew Tate,
I come down with Joe Rogan in the sense that
There's a lot of stuff you say I agree with. You know, I've got three sons in their 20s. It's not easy, actually, being a young male.
in the modern world. And I think a lot of the things that you say about that can resonate with them. The problem comes
with the, I don't know, 10%, 20% or whatever of your output...
which on the face of it appears to be blatant misogyny. And when you couple that with your massive influence and huge reach...
That is why the social media companies have decided to effectively cancel you. I don't believe in cancellation.
I don't believe in censorship particulars, why I've invited you to come on the show. But I do think a lot of the things you've said
are blatant misogyny. Do you accept that? So you made a very interesting point there. You just said, "On the face of it, appear to be blatantly misogynistic." I understand that on the face of some of the long format content I've made, if you're gonna take a few seconds out of hours,
chop it up, put it all over social media, accompanied with my massive fame, then things can absolutely not only be taken out of context. I do not hate women in any regard. I have no negative relationship with women. No women have come forward saying I've hurt them. I have no criminal record for hurting women. There's no way I can be seen as the face or the devil in regards to how men treat women on the planet. I'm absolutely not only the opposite. I believe in protecting and providing. I've been misunderstood. There's been large...
contingents of people who have tried very hard to purport lies about me,
And the truth of the matter is, I've been producing content for a very long time. Hours and hours of video has been cut down to two or three seconds of clip. Those clips have gone viral and people misunderstand me. I think you've used this phrase to be taken out of context. And I'm not sure that is correct in the sense that it still comes out of your mouth. Completely. Some of the things you've said, I just think, are...
blatantly. Well, let's do them. Let's hear them. Let's go through something. Sure. So you said this about Me Too stroke rape. This is probably 40% of the reason I moved to Romania. In Eastern Europe, none of this garbage flies. You go to the police and say he raped me back in 1988. They'll say, well, you should have done something about it back then. Yeah, so the point I was making was obviously at the height of the Me Too scandal, and also if we look at Amber Heard and Johnny Depp, there's been a lot of high-profile cases where men have been accused of things they did not do without evidence, and their lives have been completely and utterly destroyed.
When I say these things, people sit and say that, "Oh, he hates women." I don't hate women. I think rape is disgusting. I would take a stronger stance on rape than the British government. I think these people should face the death penalty. But to sit and say that women without evidence can go forward and just make up accusations against men, even though they've been repeatedly proven to destroy men's lives at will, is absolutely not really... What about a woman who was raped back in 1988 and goes to the police? Then she... then the man should face absolute and complete justice. - Uh, the... - But do you understand that when that clip appears on TikTok,
As a clip? And all right. As a clip, completely. OK, but if still something came out of your mouth,
Do you accept that when that appears on TikTok, a lot of young, maybe not as smart as you, young men, right? Impressionable teenagers will read that and go, what's he saying? Is he saying that rape doesn't exist? No, completely. I'm not going to sit here as a professional and say that I can't be taken out of context. What I will say is that one small sentence you've taken was from a one-hour video where I explained that, of course, rape is disgusting. Of course, everybody should be punished for their crimes regardless of when they happen. But people are not perfect, male and female.
without evidence, there's gonna be a contingent of women who will do that. I'm trying to make a balanced and nuanced argument in a world where people have no intention span, they're gonna take a few seconds,
Put it online, decide someone's good or bad, not be interested in the longer format video. And here I am. I'm certainly a person who takes personal responsibility. That's who I am as a person. But we live in a world now with TikTok videos five or six seconds long, there's no content. Do you think women are the property of men? No. The point I was making... Why have you said they are? Because I made a religious point. I said that when a man marries a woman, the woman's father walks him down the aisle, walks her down the aisle and hands her away to the man. Traditionally, that's what it says in the Bible. I'm a religious person. I believe in God. I live in the most religious country in the world.
I think she takes his last name.
I mean, let's watch the clip that you said about this so that we can get it in context.
So I think my sister is my her husband's property. Yes. When a
Bride is walking down the aisle to marry the groom.
The father walks next to her,
and gives her away, true or false? Absolutely. But I've been married twice, as it turns out, and on both occasions I didn't believe the woman was being handed to me as chattel, as property. Perhaps the way that that... I'm asked that question repeatedly, and I'm asked in a loaded way. So would you rephrase what you said there? Now, what... That's an interesting point about phrasing. The way I would say things before I was famous, I have to take personal responsibility and accept that if I make a video that 500 people see and 1% of them misunderstand it,
That's not a problem. If I make a video that 5 million people see, and 1% of them under... So specifically on that point, I think my sister is a husband's property. She took his last name. She married him. She wanted to join his family. She has said it herself. Right, so she... She's still a sovereign individual. She's absolutely not a sovereign individual. But property means that the husband owns your sister. Listen, my friend, if we want to argue about this, we need to go back to the Bible, to the Quran. You need to argue with religious people in the world. No, no, I'm not talking about anything in the Bible or Quran. But that's what it says. No, no, I'm asking you what you think.
and she decides to take his last name, that they have different roles and responsibilities within that marriage. And I believe that... That's not the question. She is hand... I believe the father... Don't behave... Andrew. The father hands her... Don't behave like a politician. The father hands her to the man. Right, but don't be a politician, because I think you're a straight talker, right? You keep telling me you're a straight talker. I think my sister is her husband's property. Do you regret saying it like that? I understand that with my newfound fame, perhaps it could be phrased differently. However, I still believe that a woman is given to the man in marriage. That's what I believe. Yeah, but not as property.
No, property is the word that other people use when they ask me the question. But as an equal partner in a loving union, that's what marriage actually means. It doesn't mean that when you get married, the woman is given to you as a bit of chattel. Agreed.
So why say it?
But that's the way that people ask me the question. People say to me they ask a question-- Oh, hang on. You can't blame people for asking you questions. Surely, if you want to be accountable for what you've said, you've got to own your responses, not blame the question. I own the response. I believe-- Let me ask you a question now and you say something and then say, "Well, actually, I blame you for asking." I understand, Piers. Piers, I understand. I believe the woman is given to the man. I believe she's given away by the father. I believe she belongs to the man. So you do-- So fundamentally, all right. So fundamentally, you do believe that a woman becomes a man's property at marriage. I believe she belongs to the man in marriage, correct? Right.
I mean, see, that to me is misogyny.
And you're entitled to your opinion. Right. But do you not understand why people think it is misogyny? I understand why some people can be very offended by what I say. What they do is they take a point like that and they ignore all the other points I make the other way around. That's why I've repeatedly asked you about that line to see if you've changed your position. But the reality is you haven't. It's not about changing positions. I'm a full-grown adult and I stick by the things I say and I'm responsible for them. Which, by the way, is fine. Absolutely. But what you did say at the start of this little exchange, you said, you know, I wouldn't maybe say things the same way now that I did before I was famous.
actually you've doubled down and said exactly the same thing. On certain points. So that is what you believe. That's my point. Yes. I'm trying to work out, look, I don't know you. We've just met, right? I'm trying to work out who Andrew Tate is and what you actually believe. I don't want to twist anything at all. Then let me make it very, very clear to the camera. I believe a woman is given to the man in marriage. I believe that. I also believe a man has a duty to protect and provide for her. I believe a man should lay down his life if something happens or his wife's life is threatened. I believe that women and children first are on the lifeboats. I believe that men...
- It's not-- no, it's-- okay. - And they literally buy them as a slave. Well, obviously, we're not talking about that. We're talking about religious, biblical marriage. We're talking about something else.
Yeah, but I'm a Christian. I don't believe that I owe my wife. Do you believe your wife was given away to you when she took your last name? I believe that there is a process where a father traditionally walks his daughter down the aisle and hands...
his daughter to this man and they stand there and become a union of two loving people in a partnership. No. There's no ownership involved. He's not selling her. The father of the bride isn't selling his daughter.
No, absolutely. That's what property means. She becomes a member of your family.
I think we're arguing over semantics. We're not, though, because fundamentally, I don't believe a man owns a woman. You do. Well, I don't think a man owns any sovereign individual. I don't think we live in the world of slavery. I don't own any man or any woman. Nobody owns anybody. When you use phrases like "property," that's what you imply. I understand. And so my point again is, you're a smart guy, right? There's no denying that. You're smart. You're a good talker. I've seen a lot of the stuff.
But when-- what I don't think you quite fully understand-- No, I understand very well, Piers. When young, impressionable people-- I understand that very well. --who are not as smart--
see things like, I think my sister is her husband's property, yes, and you've just reaffirmed that belief. They think that they have the right to own women. I understand that very well, Piers. That's why people think you're a misogynist. Completely. I understand all of this very well, which is why when you're saying I was backtracking, I'm not. Do you have any regret, though, over the way you phrased this stuff? Well, this is the point I was trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is, when I was not nearly as famous and I was making long-format content, I was not sitting there anticipating I'd become the most Googled man on the planet
taken out of context. That was not my anticipation. No, but it's still what you believed. It's what you believe now. So what's the difference?
It's not about-- you're asking me, you're saying that young people who are impressionable-- If you said to me, look, look, Piers, honestly, I've had time to think about this, and I wish I hadn't said it. I don't believe that. That's one thing.
Actually, you said the opposite. You said, "Actually, that's what I think." Yeah. I think that when a... It doesn't really matter whether you recorded it when you're famous or not famous. It's what you actually believe, right? I believe that a man has a duty to protect and provide for a woman.
I believe that a woman's father gives her away to the man. That's what I believe, and that's in my marriage, that's the circumstance I'm going to live under. If people want to live in a different scenario, that's completely theirs. They're prerogative. You went on to say about authority over women. If I have a responsibility over it, I must have a degree of authority. For the same reason if I have responsibility over it and people are going to use their mind, it's an example and analogy, responsibility over a child, I have to have some authority. So you believe as part of your ownership or your property of the woman,
- You have to have authority over her. - No, I believe if you have... That's what you said. I believe you have responsibility over something, you have to have a degree of authority, you can't be responsible. Yeah, but authority means, again, that you're the boss. The point I'm making, if you'll please let me finish at this point. The point I was trying to make was talking about the safety of a woman. She was walking alone at night and I was saying, "Well, I wouldn't let my woman walk alone at night." And they said, "Well, you're not in charge of her, you don't get to decide what she does." I said, "I understand, but if I'm responsible for her safety,
and I'm the person who's burdened with making sure she is safe. I have to have the authority to say, don't put yourself in unsafe situations. The two things are linked. Well, you don't have authority. You can absolutely have the right to say to the woman you're with, I don't think you should, but ultimately... If she decides, then I can't force her. Right, so authority implies that you have the ability to control someone. No, authority believes... Authority implies that I have the moral right to sit and say that that's an irresponsible thing to do, and I'm responsible for... That's not what authority means. Well, I'm not going to... If you think I'm going to lock somebody up in their room,
Is that what you're implying? No, I don't think you know what authority means. I know what it means. I'm saying that if I... It's a different description of what authority means. If I have responsibility for her safety, then I have to have the authority to tell her not to do unsafe things. Yeah, but authority means that you have some form of control over this woman.
I think you're trying to-- what you're trying to do-- I'm only trying to get to what you think. Honestly, I am. I come with no agenda here at all. I understand.
And I'm explaining very, very clearly. If I have responsibility over said subject, I have to have authority over it. So let me say you have children, right? - Right. - You have responsibility for them. No, I have legal authority over my children.
That is very different to having legal authority over my wife or my female partner. Completely, but the point I'm trying to make... So you accept that?
I accept that... Because you used the analogy of responsibility for a child. My friend, these are very... These are actually really important things. They're important things, but you interrupt me every five seconds, so it's hard for me to actually explain my point.
The point I'm making here is very simple.
You have children and you're responsible for their safety, so you're gonna have authority to say, "Don't go out at night," perhaps, because you want them to be safe. -I have legal authority. -You have a legal authority. -Yeah. Legal authority. I'm saying that if I had a woman, and the question, where you've raised this soundbite from, I was asked,
ABOUT PROTECTING A WOMAN, MAKING SURE SHE'S SAFE. AND I WOULD SAY I WOULDN'T WANT HER TO GO OUT AT NIGHT ON HER OWN.
because I'm responsible for her safety." And someone said, "Well,
"You don't have authority over to do that." And I said, "Well, no, I can't force her to stay inside." But if she were to ask me, "How do I protect myself at night?" I would say, "Well, you should stay inside. That's how you should do it." I don't have an issue with what you said. So we agree. - No, no. - It's the semantics. No, it's not semantics. And this is where I don't think you quite get why there's a furore over what you say.
With respect. Because the semantics point would be, we're saying the same thing in different ways. But we're not. I'm saying to you, when you say I have to have some authority over a woman, I say to you, you have no right to any authority over a woman. You do over a child, if it's your child, because you are the legal appointed guardian of that child. Understood. You're not a legally appointed guardian or authority over your wife or female partner. Legally appointed, absolutely not. I agree. However...
When it comes to things like personal responsibility or personal safety, men, largely by society, are accepted. We're the protectors and providers. We can sit here and pretend that in the world we live in, if me and my wife were walking down the street and men were to come up and try and attack us, I wouldn't be the one fighting. But we both know in reality I would. I have a degree of responsibility to protect her. So if I have a degree of responsibility to protect her physically, then the point I'm trying to make is...
I will do my best to make sure she's never putting herself in unsafe situations. Do you wish you hadn't used the word "authority"? The authority is something that she would give to me. She would come to me and say, "How can I make sure I'm as safe as possible?" But I don't want to interrupt you. I just want to point out that's not what authority means. If someone gives-- you can-- a person can give somebody else authority. Voluntary authority is not authority. No, but that's the point. It's not.
-Pierce... -Andrew Starr! Pierce, if a woman comes to me and says, "I want you to keep me safe," she is handing me authority for her safety. But do you understand the difference between having authority over somebody and somebody giving you permission to have authority? -Completely. I never said... -One is consensual and one isn't. But why are we pretending I do unconsensual things? Because you literally say, "I must have a degree of authority. I have to have some authority." And the point... Only if I'm responsible for her safety. If I'm not responsible for her safety, I don't have authority. If your position now is that...
WITH HER PERMISSION,
I would like to have authority when we go out at night to protect her. That's a different thing. That was always my position. But that's not what you said. But that was always my position, Pierce. So, again, I simply say to you, do you... It is what I said, though. Do you wish you'd phrased it a different way? No, because we're talking about long format copy, where I'm talking about a woman who has come to me and said, you're responsible for making sure I'm safe. I said, well, then I have to make the decisions. When an 18-year-old boy reads, I must have some authority over a woman, what do you think he thinks? Well, I understand that, and I said this earlier when you tried to say I was backtracking, which I'm not doing.
No, no, actually, I'm not trying to gotcha here. Cool. I'm trying to work out exactly what you actually think. I understand with massive fame comes massive responsibility. I understand that a percentage of the population are always going to take everything that's said by anybody out of context. Would you change the wording of what you said? No, I would just encourage people to watch my long-format copy and understand it fully. Would you tell an 18-year-old boy you don't have...
authority over women. Absolutely. You would say that? Unless a woman comes to him and says, you're responsible for my safety, please make sure to keep me safe. Like my woman says, that Andrew Tate, I can sign up to. Well, then we agree. Yeah, but I don't agree with what you said before. Because you're taking a soundbite from a two hour conversation. Yeah, but you haven't been taken out of context because I've read you the entire sentence. It's very... Well, you've ignored all the context around the sentence, my friend. You can't ignore a sentence that says, I must have a degree of authority. But you can when there's a two hour conversation where a woman
well, if I'm responsible for your safety, I have the authority to make decisions. So yes, you've ignored all the context. Do you respect women? Absolutely. Why wouldn't I?
Do you think that 18, 19-year-old women are more attractive than 25-year-old women? I think there's attractive people. Uh... That's a loaded question. I don't know... Well, it's not really, is it? -I can't say that. -You know why I'm asking you. -Of course I do. But I can't sit here and say... -For the benefit of viewers who don't know why I'm asking, you said this. In general,
This is also one of the reasons men find youth attractive. You want to blow up the internet? I'll blow up the internet right effing now. The reason 18 and 19-year-olds are more attractive than 25-year-olds is because they've been through less dick.
People say, "Oh, you can't say that," but yes, I can. A 19-year-old is more attractive than a 26-year-old woman, and I'll tell you why, because that 26-year-old has talked to more guys, been to the club more times, been effed and dumped more times, more arguments, more mess, more for me to clean up. That...
is misogyny. Why? Because you are encouraging a mindset about 25-year-old women that makes them sound out to be...
infinitely less desirable than 18, 19-year-olds, and having effectively been...
having too much sex to be taken in a more respectful way. Well, firstly, even if that was the case, that wouldn't be misogyny. What did you mean by what you said? That's not misogyny, because it's not anti-women. I'm saying that an 18- or 19-year-old woman would be more desirable. It's pretty anti-25-year-old woman. Anti-25-year-old women, we can argue, but not misogyny. Well, that's misogyny, then. No, no, no, it's not. Being anti-any woman at all is misogyny. Not when I'm saying that women are beautiful and attractive at a certain age. You're saying 18- and 19-year-olds are more attractive than 25-year-olds. Well, then ageist, perhaps, but misogynistic, absolutely not.
-You didn't accept that it was misogyny? -No, I didn't. You said it was misogyny. I'm telling you, no, it's not. So you don't think if you're saying slightly hateful things about F25-- -That's not slightly hateful. -Well, it is.
You think you'd say that to a woman's face if she's 25? It's not slightly hateful. So you would go up to a 25-year-old woman and tell her exactly what I've just read about? Why would I walk up to a random 25-year-old woman... Because you said it in public on the internet, and it's been listened to and watched by millions and millions of young, impressionable boys. Correct. There was a large panel. There was a conversation. There was hours-longs of conversation. There were feminists attacking men for toxic masculinity and attacking me and saying things, and I said things back which were going to antagonize. But I think, see, I'm... Which you've done yourself a bunch of times.
toxic masculinity are not
- Toxic. - Correct. I do think that kind of sentence that I just read out, that paragraph,
is actually toxic.
If you genuinely mean that, and you say you wouldn't say it to a woman's face, but you said it in public about women of that age,
I do think that's misogynist.
And I think you probably do too.
I don't think it's misogynistic. I understand why it can be insulting. You wouldn't say it to a woman's face? Well, it depends. You're making out like I'm walking around the street going up to random 25 girls. Well, if they tell you, you're doing it to tens of millions of people online. There's no difference. Not at all. We're discussing a topic. We were discussing the ideal age of a man. Should young boys, right, in their teens...
Are you comfortable that they would have that mindset? Be honest. I think that young boys and their teens lack life experience, they lack nuance, and they need to be very, very careful what they're digesting online, whether it's my content or anybody else's. You know for a fact millions of them are digesting exactly what you're saying. Completely. The entire internet, to a degree, I think any subject you can find, there's going to be a whole heap of content. I come back to the Joe Rogan thing, Andrew. A lot of what you say, I agree with. - Yeah. - Right? I do. Genuinely.
I've read a lot of stuff you said.
A lot of the stuff you talk about, I think, yeah, he's got a good point, right? So we agree about a lot of things. But when I read that kind of thing, I'm like...
I just-- how much of that is you?
How much of that is some act? Do you regret saying stuff like this? I don't... And actually, do you see it as weakness?
to admit you shouldn't have said something like that? No, I don't live with regret. I think what's happened is that, like I said, long-format content, arguments with feminists, arguments with the toxic masculine crowd, arguments with the left, and they're going to take a small clip, small sentence from ours, and they're going to try and paint me as a villain. But I'm not left or right.
I don't know what you are, Piers. Exactly. That's my point. That's my point. And I understand. And you're doing exactly as I knew would happen on this interview, which is because you're a busy man. You're not going to watch hours and hours and hours of video. Actually, I have watched hours and hours of video, and I'm going to come to the stuff where I agree with you, and I'm going to come to the stuff about your censorship, which I have issues with. So this is, you know, it's a long interview, right? Sure. I just thought off the top, you said to me, and you were quite bold about it, well, go on, then, let's go through this. And you should keep going. I will sit here and stand by what I said. I believe that... On that, I just read to you there. Yeah.
Do you wish you hadn't said that?
I understand how it's been misconstrued. I understand how it's been weaponized against me.
Do I regret it because it's been weaponized and used against me? Well, that's slightly annoying.
Did I at the time mean what I said in the context of the conversation, which obviously you're not familiar with and the people at home are not familiar with? No, I meant what I said.
The 25-year-old women, they've just talked to more guys, been to the club more times.
been effed and dumped more times, more arguments, more mess, more for me to clean up. Well, there's a whole bunch of context and conversation around that that's been missed. I don't think I'm missing much context. Well, I encourage people who are interested to go watch it.
Right, but, I mean, I've just read out three sentences...
on the bounce there, I don't think there's any context I'm missing. I mean, you've made it pretty clear what you think about the difference.
between 18 and 90-year-old women. I wasn't talking about myself, even. I was explaining, I was talking with a Muslim guy who was on the panel, and he was explaining how youth is very valued in most parts of the world, and why virginity is valued in most parts of the world. The feminists were arguing against it, and I was sitting there, actually, very much like you, a mediator between the two, explaining why in most of the world still today, perhaps not in the Western world, virginity is coveted, youth is coveted, in most of the world, and throughout all of human history. And I was sitting there making the point, explaining why in certain parts of the world they think how they do.
Even though it's very different to the Western world. So I was making a point mediating between two groups very similar to yourself.
The conversation has been misunderstood. They've taken this clip of it, and it's been weaponized and used against me. I understand that. It's because I am now the most famous Google person on the planet. It's inconvenient, sure. But I'm definitely not a danger to women in any regard. I date women 25, 26, 27 years old all the time. None of them are offended by the things I say. I don't think you're a danger to women. Of course not. I think the danger, if it concerns you, the danger is the influence you have on young men to have this kind of mindset about women. And that's really where I'm trying to get to what you really believe and how much you've just shot off
you think it's like entertaining and you haven't really given it much thought. And whether now you're a bit older and you've had all the fallout, whether part of you is thinking, actually, if I had, as Joe Rogan says,
If you hadn't said stuff like this, you'd probably still be on all these platforms. You'd be massively more popular, massively more famous, massively richer. So I'm really just trying to get to on the blatantly misogynist stuff. Do you just wish you hadn't said it? With great power comes great responsibility. It was certainly said before the great power came. It's inconvenient to a degree. However, like I said at the time, with the context of the conversation,
I know that I'm not saying things which I believe to be detrimental to the world. However,
They've been misconstrued and they've been misunderstood. If a 25-year-old woman was watching this, would you say, I'm sorry for saying that?
Well, I wouldn't want anyone to be offended by anything I say. But I say things... But I say things that offend... And this is the thing that's interesting, Piers. Please let me finish. Are you... Again, you're behaving like a politician. But hang on. You can say I'm interrupting. You do. But you're answering a different question to the one I asked you. So, as an interviewer... Sure. Okay, sure. Okay, let's... Sure. Okay, you accept that. Let's accept we both got on. Okay.
So again, my point is simply, if a 26-year-old woman is watching this and has heard those comments,
Would you just say to her, look, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said that. No, I won't. I will say that I am sorry that that offends you. However, there's a large contingent of the world... That doesn't mean you're sorry. No, I'm not sorry. That's the point I'm making. I'm sorry if that offends you. However, there's a large contingent of the world that believe that, and I was mediating for a conversation. Parts of the world that believe that about 26-year-old women are parts of the world where women are not allowed out on their own. That's a conversation happening. They have to wear full burkas. Well, that's a conversation happening. They're not allowed to drive cars. That's nothing to do with me. But is that the kind of world for a woman that you...
I was mediating a conversation. I'll ask you what you think.
I don't live in a country where that happens. You're using that as the excuse for why you're not sorry for saying it. -It's not an excuse. -There are parts of the world where this is fine. -My friend... -So my question to you is, well, do you think it's fine? I don't think it's fine. I live in a world where... -You don't think it's fine? -My... The reason I... This isn't that hard, Andrew. You can simply say, "Pierce." You know what?
With the benefit of hindsight,
I wish I hadn't said it like that. And if a 26-year-old woman's watching, I'm sorry I said that because that actually is blatantly misogynist. And even though that's a view held by other parts of the world, it's not a view I share. Now, I would respect you more if you said that than if you try and say, well, it's said in other parts of the world, so I'm not sorry. That doesn't tell me what you think. Then you need to understand why my content existed in the first place. My content existed because I tried my very hardest to be an absolute and not a realist, especially with uncomfortable truths. I was pointing out that very uncomfortable... Is that a truth?
It's an uncomfortable truth in many parts of the world. It's not a truth that I'm happy about. It's not a truth I'm freeing. Hang on, hang on. You're digging it again.
What do you mean that's the truth in other parts of the world? That's what you said. You're not talking about another part of the world. You're talking about what you believe is the difference between 18 and 90-year-olds and 26-year-olds. It's your belief. I was talking about what the people on the panel believe the difference is.
So what do you think the difference is? I think the difference is age.
What's the difference, though? Well, a 26-year-old's older than a 19-year-old. And so you stand by what you said about talking to the guys, been to the club more times, been after Dump more times. - You believe that, or not? - Well, I... No, there's plenty of 26-year-old women who have been with one man, or... or virgins, of course. - Right. So you don't believe that? - I don't think that the age is the only thing that's gonna decipher how many men or women... Right, so if you don't actually believe what you said, just say sorry. It's not about not believing what I'm saying. It's about you understanding that there's large conversations going on... I'm just reading back stuff you've said... - I know you are. ...and I'm asking you, do you believe it?
I believe that it's more likely a 26-year-old's had more partners than a 19-year-old. You don't know that. I don't know that. You're right.
In fact, there could be absolutely no evidence for that whatsoever. Completely agree.
So why say it? Why stigmatise all 26 year old women?
We're-- it's not about-- we're repeating ourselves here. But not really. I'm just trying to get to what you actually believe. I believe that men find youth attractive in general.
I believe that in the context of the conversation... 25-year-old women aren't old. I agree with you. They're not. Especially, I'm old. You know, I'm a lot older than that. The point I was making was part of mediating a panel, a conversation between feminists...
and some Muslim guys. - I get it, I get it. - Okay, good, so you understand why I said the sentence. - But as far as I know, you weren't espousing what a Muslim man might think, you were espousing what you think. - I was espousing what the people on the panel believed.
But you were saying what you think.
I feel like you're trying to pin me down. If it's not what you believe, just say, I don't believe that.
WHAT PART WOULDN'T I BELIEVE? WELL, YOU TELL ME WHICH PART YOU DON'T BELIEVE. THERE'S THE SENTENCE. WHICH PART WOULD YOU NOW SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE?
I believe that 25-year-old women perhaps have had, because they've been alive longer, maybe have had more partners, but I don't believe that makes them a bad person. Right.
But you understand that the way you phrased it makes every 25-year-old man feel a bad person. No, I don't think so. Of course you do.
Not stupid, come on. - Piers. - Andrew, you're not stupid. You know what that sounds like to any 25, 26-year-old woman. - Completely. And you're-- - So you have maligned every 25, 26-year-old woman with that statement. And I'm simply asking you to all those who are not,
of the type of women that you've described here, are you sorry? I don't want anybody to be offended by anything I say. I want to be a positive force in the world. I don't want anybody to hear what I say and make them feel bad about themselves. I want all people to live righteous and good, whether they're male or female.
And anybody who-- - You need a righteous life?
I think I do, yeah. Do you? Yeah. You've both said openly of having six, seven partners at once. Is that righteous? I'm not taking a moral view from me, simply asking you what you think righteous means. I think righteous is living true to your heart and knowing that you're doing good by people, not snaking anybody, not lying to anybody. I know I live a very righteous life.
Have you ever been in love? Yeah. How many times?
Plenty. I believe in love between men and women. A real love, you know? Yeah. I believe... How many times would you say? Enough. I believe men and women are a beautiful union. I think we're slightly different, but when we work together, we're the most powerful force in the world. How many women have you loved?
I don't know, Pierce.
A few. Give me a bullpup.
5, 10, 20?
Let's say...
You don't forget how many people you've been in love with. Let's say ten. I mean, I've been in love, and I certainly believe that men and women, when they work together, is the most beautiful force on the planet. I believe in family, I believe in children, I believe in... If you believe in family and children and love, why are you single? I'm not single. Well, you're not married, that's what I mean. Well, if I was married, the last thing I would do is advertise it to the feral psychopaths on the internet. I'm not a feral psychopath. You called me friend earlier. It can be debated, Piers. But the point I'm making as a whole is that all of these...
- I'm not going to be very much of a point. - No, but let's please for a second. - You don't or you do? Let's please for a second, because you've introduced me so many times I've failed to... Well, actually, I've only interrupted you just to be clear when you've actually answered a different question. - Cool. Well, then, on all these points you're making... - And you've admitted that. On all these points you're making, on repeat, you're making... you're taking these sentences, and on repeat, you're using to... you're weaponising them against me. I understand. - I'm not weaponising anything. - OK, it's fine. No, no. The point. You're weaponising the weaponising. - No problem. - Which doesn't exist. No problem. But... You said to me, "Come on, bring it on. "Read out all the things that you think are blatant misogyny."
we identified from all the research that I thought were blatantly misogynist. - Understood. - And giving you the chance to respond. And the only time I've interrupted you is when you've tried to answer a completely different question. Understood, Pierce.
I THINK IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE. I THINK IT'S A LOT OF PEOPLE.
FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE SAME PODCAST WHERE YOU'VE READ ONE OF THEM SENTENCES FROM, I WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW IT'S A MAN'S DUTY TO DIE BY A WOMAN. AND THE GUY ASKED ME, HE SAID, "IF 10 MEN WITH KNIVES ATTACKED YOUR WOMAN, WOULDN'T YOU JUST --"
I said, yeah, I'd stand and die. I'd never just run away because I have a duty as a man. I must die on the spot to protect her honor and my honor. I'm talking about a man having responsibility to his duties. I'm talking about the old traditional ways of masculinity. And what happens is a few sentences from such a long conversation is taken and used against it. I understand that. So I want you to understand that I'm talking about protecting and providing for women. I'm talking about a man making sure a woman... Do you want to get married? No, but this is... We have to... We household feed into each other, Piers. I'm talking about protecting... This is not a hard question.
I'm talking about a man being responsible for her safety. I understand. So of course I believe in men and women. Of course I believe in love. Of course I believe in marriage. Of course I believe in family. The idea that I don't believe in these things is crazy. I didn't ask you if you believed in it. I asked you if you're going to get married. One day, absolutely. You'd like to?
If I'm not married already, I will be married one day, if I'm not.
You might be secretly married? I could be married, correct. Why would you not tell me either way? Why would I advertise to the feral psychopaths of the world who have tried their very best to destroy me for an opinion about my private life and the things that are most sacred to me? Why would I do that? What do you think? If you said you were married, everyone would hate you? I don't know if people hate me. It's about me understanding that I'm a hard target.
But I am very, very protective of the people I care about. Right. But you believe in the concept of marriage. Completely. That's what we were talking about the whole time. What do you think? We talked about a man giving a woman away. I believe in marriage more than anybody. In fact, I believe in marriage... No, please. I believe in marriage in the traditional sense. I believe a man has a duty to stand up and be a real man. I believe that the problem with the world today that we are facing is that not enough men are sticking to the age-old ways of masculinity. I believe that me standing up and saying a man must protect a woman and provide for her, so he needs to make sure that she's safe. He needs a degree of authority to protect her.
But no, but people do have a problem with it. And that's the world we're in now. Andrew, I'm over here.
Sure. I don't have a problem with what you just said. Here's where my problem comes, right? There are a lot of clips of you floating around on the internet, as you know.
One of them has you saying, "Bang out the machete, boom in her face, grip her by the neck, shut up, bitch." In another, you say, "Slap, slap, grab, choke, shut up, bitch, sex."
When people see those clips and hear you say those things... Agreed. Well, I don't think that...
It's not hard to misunderstand it. It is. You might say that it's consensual. Other people would say whether it's consensual or not, that's a very ugly way to talk about women.
Completely. Now, let's watch... Hitting them with machetes? No. Watch the whole video. It's a girl coming at me with a machete, and me saying, "Here, slap the machete out of her hand. She's attacking me." -I understand. -So you don't understand. -This is the exact point. -I do understand. No, people don't watch them in full... And this is actually what's interesting.
And please don't interrupt me on this point. Social media has changed in modern times.
YouTube five years ago was five, six, seven, eight-minute long videos. Now we have TikTok, 10 seconds, 15 seconds, 20 seconds, YouTube shorts, Instagram stories. Now anything you produce that's long form is cut down to very, very short form. They're interested in clicks. They're interested in engagement. Of course. But you benefited from all that. They find the most controversial clips they can on purpose. You benefited from all that. Everybody benefits from social media views, as do you. Your... Was it the hustler...
-What is it called? -I had an online school. -Called? -Hussell's University. Right. And their whole job was to promote your clips, make you rich and famous. So you've benefited from this system.
the one you now profess to hate. You've benefited from it. I never said I hated it. You click baited like the best of them. I never said I hated it. I'm saying what happened.
I don't hate it. I don't hate social media. I think it's a very powerful force. I don't hate the social media. I'm saying that. The point is, I think you can talk... Look, you can talk to girlfriends of yours,
Maybe a secret wife, I don't know. It's entirely up to you.
Or two. Maybe you've got 10 wives. That's your business. I don't care. Right? My only thing is, I don't care what you do in private. If it's consensual between you and another woman, you can do what you like, right? It's your life. I believe in freedom and liberty.
It's when you say it in public, it's the influence that this kind of thing has on young men. I agree. Right? And I speak with someone with three sons, right? It's who are, by the way, they're intrigued by you. They're fascinated, right? You're a big thing in that world of TikTok and so on. So they all are aware of you and what you say. So they're all looking. And when they see things like the machete thing, I get the context. I get the context.
Because I'm a 57-year-old guy who's been around the block a bit, and I can get what you've said, and you're responding to a particular scenario... Yeah. ..which you'd created, where a woman... But it can be misunderstood. I understand. So my point to you is...
Given that you know it can be misunderstood, do you regret saying things like this on camera where it can be disseminated by less intelligent young males who think that is actually what they should be doing to women? And finally, we get to the point of the issue...
which is the point I tried to make at the very beginning. When I made a video before I was famous that got 500 views, me being concerned that 1% of people will misunderstand it,
was not relevant. Where you start getting 5 million views a video, 50 million views a video, 1% of people misunderstanding it. - It doesn't change what you... - No, it doesn't. But it becomes a much larger problem. - I understand. - So with great fame... - That's true. - ...comes great responsibility. - Right. - So... - I agree. - Would I... Now that I'm famous, do I say things the same way as I did back before I was famous? Absolutely not. - Right. - As... neither would you or nearly any other famous person - on the planet. - So my... - Once you become famous, you have to be a lot more careful with how you say things. I understand. So my logical follow-up to that remains,
Do you regret then saying it the way you said it? I can't live in regret by saying something before I was famous on a camera, which barely anybody watched, and then I became famous afterwards. That would be a very asinine way to view the world. Do you stand by all those things? I can't live in regret because I didn't know I was going to become the most famous man on the planet. That regret would be the wrong word. Is it inconvenient?
Sure, but I can't sit here and say, I wish I knew six years ago I'd be the most famous man on the planet and monitored all of my speech forever. That's asinine.
You see, one of the problems that people have with you is that
So
They think you have a malevolent influence on young people. This was the excuse that was put out by the big tech companies. Excuse being the key word. Well, it may be, actually.
Intrinsically, I have a problem with censorship. I don't think Donald Trump should be banned from Twitter, for example, because the Ayatollah of Iran...
remains on Twitter and other social media platforms.
Whatever I think of you, you're not the Ayatollah of Iran.
Right? So there's... To me, there's got to be perspective here. And I don't understand the inconsistency by what companies like Twitter, how they treat the leader of Iran, and someone like you. It seems to me they're much more draconian on people like you than they are with people who perhaps should not be allowed platforms. But generally, I don't really agree with no platforming people. But I think what's interesting talking to you is it seems to me like you have gone on a bit of a journey of self-awareness about the impact of...
some of the stuff you said in the past, and you have said you wouldn't say it again in the same way.
Now, you may not want to express regret for that, but it shows me that at the very least,
you have evolved to somebody who recognizes that these can be quite damaging in the way that you said them. Completely. As a professional and as an adult, it would be stupid for me to sit here and say that now that I'm the most famous man on the planet,
my words do not have more impact than they did before.
With impact, with power comes responsibility.
and things need to be worded in a very careful way. Now, when I do a long-format interview, I have to sit there and consciously understand that any 10 seconds of that can be cut and used against me. So I have to be a lot more careful with how I say my words and how I construct my sentences.
Of course, we agree with all of that. That's exactly what's happened to me. I agree with all of that. I don't want to be seen as a negative influence in the world. I know that there's a whole bunch of men. I get thousands of emails a week from men whose lives I've saved. I get thousands of emails a week from men who are on the verge of suicide and have saved their lives. We're talking about... And by the way, I don't dispute that at all. You have almost certainly, I would think...
From everything I've read about you, I think you have certainly been probably able to be very helpful to young men who have really struggled for self-confidence and all that kind of thing, right? Completely. I'm completely prepared to accept that.
But there was also, I think, quite a disturbing piece that BuzzFeed did.
And it talked about the negative impact
OF YOUNG, IMPRESSURABLE MALE MINDS WHEN THEY'VE READ
or seen some of the more inflammatory things you've said. And they quoted, for example, Sandy, 22, from Washington. My father's gone from a man who minored in women's studies in college, who was kind and in touch with his emotions, treated all people, men and women around him, with kindness, to a man who says that whenever he sees an effeminate male stranger, he gets an overwhelming urge to murder them. He loves podcasts. He listens to a lot of podcasts. I know he's listened to Andrew Tate. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's stop for a second. Let's be professional here, Piers, because you're a professional as am I.
Did you say that my father went?
She said, "My father has gone." -Her father. That's a full-grown man, firstly. So we're talking about my impact on children. You just talked about a full-grown man here. Secondly, I've never talked about murdering effeminate men in anything online, ever.
in any context ever. So I don't know why they have taken some random person I've never met in the world who's full grown, an adult, and come to their own conclusions who I've never met and lumped his name in with mine.
That is absolutely unfair on every level. I didn't watch. I didn't read. I didn't read this BuzzFeed article. But after hearing the first point, I know it's trash. That is complete.
Garbage. To sit and say that I'm the reason this man believes what he believes. I've seen a quote from you, and you can tell me what you feel here about this. Sure. You talk about people don't want to see men dressed up in... I transgender people. That's not exactly what I said. What did you say? I said the reason I am so popular and I'm so famous is that there's a large contingent of men who don't want to wear makeup.
who still want to make money, go to the gym, be strong, drive a fast car, be traditionally masculine, and don't want to be shamed for that, and they don't want to be called toxic for that. That is the reason I'm so massively famous. That is what I say. What do you think of transgender people? That's nothing to do with me. I'm not transgender, and I don't understand the issue like they do. Are you transphobic? Do you consider yourself that?
Transfer what? Afraid?
Uh, well, it kind of... Yeah. You have a phobia? I don't live in fear, my friend. I have no problem... You have a dislike of transgender people? I don't know any transgender people.
Do you have a dislike of what they stand for, what they are? No. Why would I? I don't know. That's not my issue. That's not my issue. And that's actually quite interesting, because when I was attacked, a lot of these stupid articles, like BuzzFeed, because it's ridiculous, that first point proves anyone with a brain knows that that's garbage. When they attacked me, they lump a whole bunch of things in together. They say, misogynistic, racist, transphobic. They just put them all together at random. I'm mixed race. I don't know where they get these... They just get these buzzwords and put them in a sentence. By the way, I completely agree. It's crazy. And I've had the same thing done to me.
I'm not calling you anything. I'm asking you what you personally believe you are.
I-- It's not an issue I discuss. What I do discuss is that-- So you support transgender people? I support individual liberty. I'm a libertarian. Yeah, so you support transgender people? Sure.
Sure. Why not? Exactly, yeah. So, but my point is, as a whole, you're saying that I'm saying I don't want to see men in dresses. I'm saying no. You support gay people. Sure. Sure.
I'm saying there's a large contingent of men in the world
who like the idea of the traditional masculine view of the world, who feel happy when they watch '80s action heroes with big muscles, -and they run around. -Yeah. And there's nothing toxically masculine about having a fast car, and a beautiful girlfriend, and making a bunch of money. -Nothing at all. -Absolutely. And those are the people who are my fans. -I agree. -And I'm saying... -But the problem is... Okay, I'm gonna interrupt you just to say this. No, no. Okay, but you're saying that I have a problem with men in dresses. I'm saying, "No, the people who watch my content..." -I've answered that question, you've answered. -Yeah, but the people who watch my content don't wanna see men in dresses, clearly. I don't wear a dress.
That's the point I'm making. That's not why they're watching your content. No. You're not wearing a dress. No, but that's the point I'm making. That's the point I was making. There's a large contingent of men.
who are not interested in the things that perhaps the YouTube algorithm's trying to feed them. I think there are lots of... Look, when you support masculinity and masculine traits, I'm with you, right? Okay, so you agree a man should protect and provide for a woman? Absolutely. Okay, so you agree if you were walking down the street with a woman, you'd be responsible with her safety?
-Uh, yeah. -Cool, absolutely. So if that woman wanted to walk alone... I don't think I have authority over the woman as we do that. Okay, so let me ask you another question, Piers, 'cause we are professionals. Let's say your woman decided she wanted to take a nice little walk through the south side of Chicago at 2:00 a.m., and she wanted you to go with her, and you were responsible for fighting and dying on the spot if she was attacked. Don't you think you would say to her, "No, we're not going out right now. It's not safe"?
Yes. OK, so you'd have authority to make the decision. -No, I wouldn't. -So we agree? I would say... -I don't think you should. If she decides to, it's her own volition. -Well... -If she decides, you're not gonna stop her. -I have no power to stop her. -Completely. -But you think you do. -No, I don't think I have power to stop her. -You clearly do. No, I think I have power to make the decision. I think, "No, that's not sensible." So if you have the power to make the decision, you have the power to stop her. -No, because if she... -That's where we differ. That's why I think it's interesting about you. I don't think you really think through what you're saying. I think through what I'm saying so carefully. Yeah, but Andrew, what you literally just said
is that you have the power to stop her. No, I said I don't have the power to stop her. I'm not going to lock her in the room. I'm saying that... So she wants to go on her own. Then she's going to go. Then you don't have authority to stop her. Okay, but as a couple, if we're going to sit there and decide if we're going to take this... You asked me, do I have... Would I feel a sense of responsibility for her safety? Absolutely. Agreed. Absolutely. So, let me finish, Piers. Would I have the power or authority to stop her doing it? No. No, of course not. So let me finish, Piers. You're not going to stop her walking out the hotel. Of course, it's her decision. She's a sovereign individual. My point is that usually in a couple,
there as a team and you discuss, and perhaps on certain issues, the woman will know more about X and she'll decide X and the man might know more about Y and he'll decide Y. So I'm saying if we're as a couple and we're sitting there and deciding as a couple, as a team, and she says she wants to take this late night stroll, I'm going to say, you know what, I'm going to veto this one. I'm going to call veto because it's dangerous. Which two degree would give me in that particular scenario a degree of authority? If she said, I don't want to listen to you, Andrew. It doesn't give you authority. If she says, I don't want to listen to you, Andrew. I want to go on that walk. Then what can I do? Say, well, then I don't have authority. I hope I wish you the best. I love. Then you don't
-It's a semantic argument. -Not really. -I think it is. -It's the complete opposite of what you said you had, -which was authority. -No problem, Piers.
No problem, but I think we actually... What do you believe about depression? Do you believe depression is a real thing? I believe that feeling depressed is real. I don't believe depression as a clinical disease is real, no. Really?
- Correct. - You don't believe people can be completely depressed? I think PTSD is very real. Unfortunately, I have some friends who suffer from that. I know that feeling depressed is real. I believe that the number one power you have against these things are trying to take control of your own mind and affecting your own life.
I believe that it's not healthy to hand over all your power and believe that depression is an outside disease that you can't affect. I know that when I've had difficult periods in my life and also many of my friends, like I've said, suffered from PTSD and been through terrible things.
I've lived a very difficult life, and I know people who have, that the things that made them feel better is when they woke up and said, you know what, I'm not going to allow this to damage me anymore. I'm going to take responsibility. I'm going to get up and I'm going to fight this as hard as I can. Right, and by the way, on that...
- I agree. - So we agree. My favorite speech is the Rocky Balboa one. - Okay, so then we agree. - No, no. - The red one. - No, we didn't. - Here's what we don't agree. - Pierce. - You don't-- no, hang on.
You've got to let me interject when I don't agree with you, right?
Where I don't agree with you is that there's no such thing as clinical depression. There absolutely is. It's a proven scientific medical reality. There's a different argument about have we gone a bit too soft, right, in schools and all the rest of it.
Absolutely. Do I think some people moan and whine too much about their lot in life? Definitely. Are we a victimhood society? 100%. Is there such a thing as clinical depression? Absolutely. And my argument is that if you actually bracket everybody who's not clinically depressed,
and doesn't have the genuine medical condition, then actually if millions of people are deemed
to have depression, the ones who really need the help don't get it. That's my point. Well, that I would agree with. You're right. I think it's certainly an overused term. You don't accept the research as a clinical depression. No, I don't. And that, to me, is a damaging view. OK. Well, let me explain why. If someone comes to me and says, I'm clinically depressed, or I feel very, very sad, I would say the first thing you need to do is stop accepting the identity of a clinically depressed person, stop accepting you have no control over this, and what you need to do is stop identifying that way, and let's work together to try and fight against it.
world who would tell you there is no such thing as clinical depression. Who would not tell you that some people is simply beyond their control. I think Johan Hari wrote a book.
Saying exactly that, my friend. He's not an eminent doctor. No, but I said depression wasn't real long ago and was attacked for it. Then Johan Hari wrote a book. What's he going to do with Johan Hari? Because he wrote a book proving me right. Most people... Johan Hari's a journalist. Sure. And my point is that a lot of people who are clinically depressed are suffering with something in their life, and if you fix the problem in their life, perhaps they won't feel depressed anymore. That's not a disease. No, but, Andrew... That's situational. Andrew, you're simply wrong. If that's what you believe, Piers, it's not. It's not what I believe. I don't believe in things that take power away from you.
- Whoa. - Pierce. - I would agree with you. - Pierce.
Do you think you know more than doctors? I can't become clinically depressed.
Why do you know? Because I don't believe in it.
I can't be haunted by a ghost if I don't believe in ghosts. Well, that's like saying I'm never going to die because I don't believe in it. It's ridiculous. Perhaps. But if it allows me to live a life where I feel happy and content within myself... Again, this is that little area where you lose me. No, I don't lose you. You are, because somebody with your following says... The thousands of people... The thousands of people who have emailed me saying my doctor told me I was clinically depressed and it's a disease that I have got in my brain and I can't be fixed. And I started listening to you and I realised that that's not the case and I can fix my own life and you're the only person who has ever helped me.
If you think you are single-handedly curing people of clinical depression
You are living in cloud cuckoo land. I am reading the emails of people who I have cured of clinical depression. You're reading emails from people who have believed you when you say there isn't such a thing, and they've probably never been diagnosed clinical depression. They just want to go along with what Andrew Tate says. I don't think so. And I think your view of that is... that view is dangerous. I respect that you think my view is dangerous, and I respect you have the right to view that, to think that. I think that clinical depression, I actually agree with you, is massively overdiagnosed. I've already said that PTSD is a very real thing. I've already said... I didn't... oh, hang on. Okay.
You misquoted me. I did not say clinical depression is massively overdiagnosed. I said that people who claim to be depressed...
but don't have clinical depression, I think that is massively overblown, right? In other words, there are a lot of people who just have a bad day and declare, I've got depression. And I say, well, have you been to a doctor? Have you been clinically diagnosed?
If you have and you have clinical depression, that's one thing.
But if you haven't, we could probably work on some mental strength and resilience skills with you. But a clinically depressed person has an absolutely proven medical condition that is beyond their control. Not according to me and many others, my friend. Well, what do you know about it, honestly? I know, I know from... You're not a doctor, are you not trained, are you? I'm not a doctor. You're not a psychiatrist, you're none of those things. Sure. You're a guy on the make, he's done very well for himself, spouting stuff off, much of which I agree with, as you've seen in the interview...
but some of which is ludicrous, and that's one of them. -It's not ludicrous. -It is. It's not. If you said to me, "We're in a victim whose society's got to stop," -I'm with you. -Okay. But the moment you try and deny clinical depression... I believe feeling depressed is real.
I do not believe it's a disease that you catch from the sky and you cannot affect. I believe that no matter what happens, I believe you have control of your own mind and you can fight against it. I believe if you change your circumstances in your life, you may feel different. I'll give you a quick example. I had a guy who emailed me saying he was clinically depressed and he was gonna kill himself. I obviously am not a psychiatrist, I'm not a doctor. I told him, 'cause I replied to my emails. I said, "Have you been to a psychiatrist?" He said, "Yes, I'm clinically depressed, I've been on these pills this amount of time, I'm on antidepressants, it doesn't work." I said, "I don't know what to say to you besides this."
And he said he lost his girlfriend, that's why he became clinically depressed. I said, "Listen, go to the gym."
Get a six pack first. Once you've got a six pack, email me again.
If you still feel like killing yourself, I don't know what else to say to you. But I'd say, strong body is a strong mind. Go train. He went. He started sending me progress pictures, emailing me him, getting in better, better shape. And eventually got a six-pack. He's now a professional bodybuilder.
And he said, I can't believe I was considering that. I feel so much better, et cetera. The doctor was telling him he was clinically depressed and couldn't cure it.
He started taking control of his own life, and now he felt better. Now, I'm not saying it's the case for everybody. No, no. I'm just saying. Here's my question, though. Have you seen the guy's medical records? Of course not. I just told you the story. So you're just taking his word for it? I am taking the word of a man who emailed me with a bunch of medication and specific... So you're denying proven science because one guy writes to you who you help, and you've not seen any evidence he ever had clinical depression diagnosed. I'm denying the idea that... And on the back of it, you go on your... your...
rants in public to tens of millions of people denying something because this guy writes to you and says he had it and you cured him. And I think that's a dangerous mindset, Andrew. That's fine. That's where you don't have a responsible view of your...
-Influence over people. -Disagree. It's very responsible, because I'm saving people's lives. I disagree that if you're a di-- if you have-- if you feel depressed, I disagree that you cannot affect it and change your life and take control and fix yourself and feel happier.
I disagree with that. I refuse to accept that there are people out there who cannot become happy, contented individuals. I refuse to accept we live in a world where God has created people who, no matter how hard they work and how good their life becomes, can't be happy. I don't accept that. I accept that the universe is a very giving place and that God loves all of us. And if you try your best and you work hard, you can become a better person. And I also will argue with you, and I'll counter the point, that you sitting here on your platform telling people they have clinical depression, there's nothing they can do about it.
Okay, well then, if they have clinical depression... Why do you misquote me? No, because you're saying... You hate being misquoted. No, you're saying if people have clinical depression, that they have a disease. I don't understand what you can do about it. They go to a doctor, and they get diagnosed, and they get help. Then I would argue the point that somebody... It's the opposite of what you just said I said. I would argue the point that if somebody has depression of any kind, whether it's clinical, whether it exists or not, whether they feel depressed or not, whatever, that taking control of their life, taking personal responsibility and working hard is always going to be the positive, best thing they can possibly do for their life going forward. How positive is it? So sit in here saying, I don't believe in clinical depression, you don't believe in depression. No, I don't.
to take control and fight against things. I believe in personal sovereignty.
Fine.
Good. So we agree. No, we don't. Yes, we do. No, we don't. Beards, you're on my side, afraid of being cancelled along with me. As I said to you from the start, I agree with a lot of what you say. Completely. So we're talking about... I'm taking you to task over the stuff I don't agree with. Sure. And I'm just not sure you understand why it's wrong, which is in itself quite revealing. Let me talk to you about Alex... Let me talk to you about Alex Jones, right?
who I have a bit of history with. He tried to get me deported from the United States. - Oh, did he? - Yeah. What is your view of Alex Jones? I think that Alex Jones is a sovereign individual,
who very much like the rabid left deserves a chance to speak on his points of view. I think that the truth on issues is usually somewhere in the middle between two extremes.
So you think Sandy Hook was staged? I don't know anything about Sandy Hook. Really? You know he's just been sued by the families for millions and millions. I have no idea.
You don't know anything about it? No. So why would you support someone in public when you know nothing about the most infamous thing in Patrick? When have I supported him in public? You have supported him in public. I've been on his podcast. Yeah, but you said nice things about him. I say nice things about lots of people. What do you think of Alex Jones? I said nice things about you, Pierce. That's fine. So you should, a nice person. So to sit and say that I've been on a podcast and I say nice things about him means I support him. But you said you support his right to speak about things like Sandy Hook? I don't know Sandy Hook. I don't know. You know what it was? It was a mass shooting.
of school children. OK, but to sit...
It's actually, no, no, let's stop for a second. Please don't interrupt me.
Here's why you're... I know why you're good at your job. First, you interrupt people a lot, which is good. It's a good skill. And you're very... No, no. And then, there you go. Prove me right. And the timing's good. Here's exactly what I do.
I ONLY INTERRUPT PEOPLE LIKE YOU,
when you either
Thank you.
refuse to answer the question or answer a completely different one. Sure. And I want to remind you of what the question was. Fair enough. That's fair. Or when you misquote me back, which you've done repeatedly through the interview, where you say, you see, Piers, you agree with me. And the viewer who's been watching will go, no, he didn't. Cool. No problem. The other thing you do is you try and set these traps like now. So you're saying that... What's the trap you think I'm setting? You're saying that I agree with every single point of view a man has. I literally didn't say that. You're saying, well, you support Alex Jones... Why would you misquote me? Because you're saying you support Alex Jones and you said he...
THE END OF THE END OF THEM.
I don't know what-- What do you think of Alex Jones? I don't know everything he said, Pierce. What do you think of him? I think-- I think on his podcast, he was cordial. I think he was professional on his podcast. I've also done podcasts with rabid leftists and-- and-- and people who openly hate me. -I do-- -Is it wrong? I do a podcast circuit.
And I don't know everything he's ever said. When somebody like that... And I don't know what... So I don't know what you're trying to get here because I did a podcast. If you let me get a word in, Edgway's, I'll tell you. It's a lame trick. If you let me get a word in, I will tell you. Let's go. Alex Jones said that Sandy Hook didn't happen. It was staged by actors. Okay. This compounded the appalling grief of the families of those poor 20 children... Okay. ...who were gunned to pieces by a lunatic with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. They were already grief-stricken beyond belief,
and he put petrol onto that grief quite deliberately to make a huge amount of money from his Infowars fake news bullshit. And as a result, a lot of the families have now sued him and they've won. And he's going to have to pay back tens, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars in damages to these families. And quite right, it won't do anything about the pain he caused them. Some of them actually have people turn up outside their houses with guns.
because Alex Jones had told them that these parents were making it all up. They were all staged actors. It was all run by the government. So I simply say to you, now I've told you that, what is your view of Alex Jones? I don't see why any of that has to do with me.
I-- I-- it's very interesting. I've done the guy's podcast. I know him well. He was professional and courteous to me. When I meet somebody and they show me respect, I show them back.
respect. That's what I do, as I did with you. You respect him? If somebody shows me respect, I show them respect back. So if Adolf Hitler showed you respect, you'd respect him back? That's a stupid question, Pierce. It's not. It's a logical extension of your argument. No, if in 1931 I was walking through Germany and a man come up to me and said, sorry for bumping into you, I'd say, sorry, no problem, mate. I'd show respect back. I don't know. What are you trying to say? I sanctioned the Holocaust. You literally just said, if somebody respects you, you respect them back automatically. I say, if somebody shows me respect, I show
it is.
If somebody shows me respect and is courteous to me, I'm courteous back, yes. How can you respect somebody who caused such misery and pain to sound in your family? I have no idea the specifics of the thing you're discussing. I don't understand any of it. I don't know anything about it. You've told me your version of events. When did you go on the podcast?
I was on the podcast about four times in the last four years. I did one relatively recently. So four times you went on Alex Jones' podcast. Correct. Promoting him, helping him make money. I don't think it was promoting and helping him because... Well, it's his podcast. Well, yeah, but I've been on the podcast of people who absolutely hate me. I've been on liberal left-wing podcasts. I've been on feminist podcasts. That's fine. And no, you just sat here saying, I would like you to agree, perhaps we can agree on this point, that I'm not a feminist. I go on feminist podcasts.
I do a podcast circuit. You're not a feminist? I don't know. What do you think a feminist is? Well, let's not change subject here, Piers. Stay on the subject. You mentioned feminism. Completely. You're trying to get away from the point, because what you did is you're trying to say, because I did a podcast, I sanction all of this person's views. And I'm saying I do five podcasts a week. I do five podcasts a week, and I don't sanction 100% the views of any other person on the planet, because I'm an individual, and he has individual views, as do you. So I don't know why you're trying to come at me with one of his views and pretend that's something to do with me. Because it's a pretty big view.
So let's move on. Would you? It's lame. It's lame. And let's move on. If Vladimir Putin had a podcast, would you go on it?
Sure. You would? Great. Okay. Let me know what you're talking about. If Vladimir Putin had a podcast, I'd go on it. If Joe Biden had a podcast, I'd go on it. If a feminist has a podcast, I'd go on it. If Piers Morgan has a podcast, I'd go on it. If Alex Jones, I mean, I don't see the point you're making. There's no point here. You're just, you're digging, but there's nothing to find. Well, I'm not. I'm taking your position that if somebody shows you respect, you respect them. I think that. I'm saying there are lots of people in the world I do not respect. If Vladimir Putin showed me respect, I would not respect him. That's your opinion. But. No, no, it's my view. What's your view? Okay, that's your view. Well, you're seeing. Your view is you would.
You're sitting here.
I'M NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO
And in your intro, you said that it's important that we don't have echo chambers and we have varying opinions. And that we have varying opinions. But then you're saying the people you don't like, you wouldn't go on their podcast. No, no. So you are a hypocrite. No, no. I will go on anybody's podcast and discuss any point. I don't think you understand what censorship means, do you? Like a lot of words we've had problems with today. You're just saying you... What do you think censorship means? No, but the point I'm trying to make here... Hang on.
What do you think censorship means? Don't hide from the fact that you're saying you will only do podcasts with people you like. Why do you think that's censorship?
No, that's your prerogative. My prerogative is I'll discuss... What can I do with censorship? I'll discuss opinions with anybody, and I've done hard left-wing. Why are you not asking me about the podcasts I've done for the people who are hard, liberal left-wing? By the way, I don't care whether they're left or right. Extremists, to me, are all nuts, right? -Then we agree. -Yes. -So, perfect. -Good. Next subject. All right, here's my next subject. It was a very serious case here. Jesus. And before we move on, sorry, Piers, but before we move on,
I do find it kind of disingenuous, and I know we're on a show, and I don't have a personal problem with you, but it is kind of disingenuous to try and sit here and lump me in with something-- with some school shooting. -That's nothing to do with me. -I was-- -That's nothing to do with me. -On any level. -Let me respond. -On any level. Let me explain.
Like you just said, you've been on this podcast four times. In four years. Since he said the whole thing was staged. I don't know when he said that. And I think the fact that a smart guy like you wants me to believe you had no idea that Alex Jones, who's been in the news now for the last two years for being sued by these families for the most heinous thing imaginable, of pouring petrol onto their grief by claiming that shooting was staged. The fact that you're pretending you didn't know about any of that. It's not about pretending I didn't know. And you've been on his podcast four times.
supporting him and making him money. So damn right I'm gonna call you out on it. - Piers, when I do a podcast,
If you think I spend time analyzing the point of view of that person -and everything they've ever said... -You should. ...for years beforehand... It's not years, it was minutes in most cases. Years and years. That's... That's...
- That's... - When did you last go on his podcast? You trying to lump me in and attack me for a person whose podcast I do having a view is absolutely childish. - Okay. - Because I've done a bunch of podcasts with people... - So you would do a podcast? - I've done a bunch of podcasts with people who are advocating for things... - Okay. - ...that I do not agree with on every single level. In fact, most of my podcasts are me disagreeing with people. So it's completely crazy that you're trying to lump me in with that. That's cheap. That's cheap. I think you are completely misconstruing...
the point of what I'm saying. I think deliberately.
No, no, what you're trying is a cheap trick. And I'm just making it clear to the audience... I'm just curious where your line-- where your moral line is. It's a cheap trick. Where's your moral line? I disagree with the points of view.
with the majority of the people I do podcasts with. So it's a very cheap trick you're trying here. When people invent vile things to make themselves rich off the back of families of little kids who've been blown to pieces with a machine gun...
or a semi-automatic version of a machine gun,
I think that is actually a line I wouldn't cross. I wouldn't be happy to go on someone's podcast when they've been responsible for doing that. It's not about political views or differences of opinion over facts.
It's about somebody deliberately inventing a pack of lies to compound the grief of families.
And I just, I'm curious, you don't think you have any need
to go down any kind of moral quandary about people like that, before you continue to allow them to use you for their own promotion. He didn't use me. He didn't use me for promotion. Why does he have you on the podcast? Because we disagreed and discussed points, like we're doing with you right now. Are you... Did you call him out on that? Are you using me? We didn't discuss that. I'm not using you. I'm giving you a platform most people aren't giving you right now.
to show the world who you really are. Fantastic. So neither of us are using each other.
I'm here on your show. I'm providing you with content. You're giving me a platform and nobody's using each other. It's mutual. We don't agree on a whole bunch of issues. It's fine. And here we are. I think we've had a robust exchange. Yeah, just like I've done on nearly every other podcast. And if someone were to come and say to me in the future, there's something, heaven forbid, there's a skeleton in your closet. And someone were to come to me and say, you were on Piers Morgan's show. Did you know he's X or he's done X? I would say that's absolutely nothing to do with me. Right.
I make the same point protecting you. I don't know what you do. I don't know your personal life. I can guarantee one thing.
I will not be inventing stories about the families of kids. I hope not. I hope you're a righteous person. I'm not claiming to be a righteous person. I don't know. I'm just saying that I just think it's interesting that you have no moral...
about going on people like Hank Fence. It's not about moral compulsions. It's about, I don't know what you do, Piers.
You could have a bunch of skeletons in your closet, my friend. I don't have a clue. I'm here on your TV show. I'm sure we all have lots of skeletons. Let me ask you this.
Interesting about the feminism thing. Sure. Do you identify as a feminist? I think that women and men
are fantastic both of us are fantastic i think women reproduce i think women need to be respected protected provided for i think that modern feminism is kind of hard for me to even truly what do you think it means what is feminism
I think that the idea of feminism is that men and women are equal.
UNDER THE LAW. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT? COMPLETELY. WE SHOULD BE TREATED COMPLETELY EQUAL. WE ARE EQUAL UNDER THE LAW.
Not really. I think there are still some issues in the world. Certainly in workplace, the gender pay gap remains.
They're not treated equally in most cases women. Well, that can be discussed, the gender pay gap. I think that's already been discussed at length. I think that there's actually-- You think women should go to work? I think women should work completely. You do? Why wouldn't they?
Because in the parts of the country, the world, you were mentioning earlier, that have different views of women, they don't go to work. In the parts of the world,
that person from the podcast was from.
for the point I made,
Yeah, they didn't, but I don't live in those parts of the world. I think women should be free to work if they choose. I think it's very important that...
The family unit remains. I do believe that the most in my personal view the most important and respectful thing a woman can do is become a mother. I think that having children is a beautiful thing. But obviously if women wants to work and wants to have a career especially now with paternity leave or maternity leave and she can manage to do both.
Why wouldn't I want women to work? I don't know why anyone would ever assume I don't want women to work or think women can't work because I said that I should keep them safe sometimes. Good.
No, but it's interesting because you have to look at this, Piers.
It's interesting how people extrapolate. Andrew said that women-- that he's responsible for a woman's safety, and he said that that gives him authority to make decisions for her safety, and that's been misconstrued, and he's a bad person, he believes that women are property. So-- but now we believe that Andrew doesn't believe in love, Andrew doesn't believe women should work. Andrew-- I don't know where all of that comes from. Well, that's why I'm glad we've had a chance to discuss it. Completely. I believe women are sovereign individuals, and they can make any choice they so desire.
I think that
It's important that we remember that
a man has a duty. I think I, certainly in my relationship, have a financial responsibility to provide for my woman. My woman would never have to work unless she wanted to, because I'm the kind of person who works hard enough that she wouldn't have to. - Should young men, though, all aspire to be like you? Should young men aspire to work very hard, have no criminal record, become multimillionaires, protect and provide for the women close to them?
be sovereign so they can stand up and have their own points of view in face of cancellation.
be able to not be mentally intimidated when they go on national TV and there's traps set up for them. Yeah, I believe that confident strong men,
who stand up and protect and provide for women,
ARE A GOOD THING FOR THE WORLD AND A GOOD FORCE FOR THE WORLD. AND I DON'T THINK THAT I PUT A MAGIC SPELL ON ANYBODY. I THINK THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF MEN IN THE WORLD WHO UNDERSTANDS MY VALUE. AND IF...
If men grow up to be like me, you're gonna have a whole bunch of people with no criminal record, dedicated athletes,
who protect and provide for the people close to them, are fantastic for the economy, and I'm certainly not the worst influence out here, Piers. You have little Naz,
twerking on the devil on music videos, which our children are digesting. You have, uh, Drillard is singing about stabbing people to death in the middle of a knife crime epidemic. You have rabid, uh, psychopaths on whether the right or the left
announcing violence on the other side. You have all these insanities in the world, and because I sit here and say, "I... yeah, perhaps." Now you've laid it out and it offended you, I understand. -I didn't say it offended me. -Okay, cool. -I just read you the things... -You read things that you said they could be offensive and some people are offended. Well, some people definitely were offended. Absolutely.
That's fine. And honestly, I think some of the things you said were... genuinely offensive and misogynist. Okay, so they offended you. - And actually... - So like I said earlier, so they offended you, - which is fine. - Oh, hang on. I said they offended you, and you interrupted me, and now you're saying they offended you.
which is fine, and the... but the point I'm trying to make is this: I'm not the devil. There are certainly worse people than me, and they exist. -I don't disagree with that. -And they exist. And I'm saying that my core tenets, for the people who don't understand me, are self-accountability, so I'm accountable for everything I've ever said. My core tenets are responsibility, so I'm responsible for everything I've said. My core tenets are traditional masculinity to a degree, which involves protecting and providing for women. And I'll make another point, another point here that's very, very... that's very... that needs to be said.
The number of women who have stood up and stuck up for me
is ignored. Thousands of women are making videos saying, "I've met Andrew Tate. He's such a nice guy. I wish I had a man like Andrew Tate who felt responsible to protect and provide for me." You know what? I-I do belong to my husband. That's why I married him and I love him. We ignore the thousands of women who stood up and per-and-and stood by me and said everything I said is true. And we're taking a very vocal minority who have taken the things I've said and are pretending to be absolutely and utterly devastated by them for some reason. Okay. All right. Time out. Time out. Sure.
If I had a good...
run there. Sure. An inquest this week found that a 14-year-old girl, Molly Russell, died from an act of self-harm while suffering from depression and the negative effects of online content. The coroner said she was exposed to material that may have influenced her in a negative way and, in addition, what started with depression had become a much more serious depressive illness and she very sadly took her life. That's absolutely disgusting. Right. Her father's campaign for better protections against potentially dangerous social media algorithms, right? It says that the
fantasized acts of self-harm, normalized her condition, and focused on a limited and irrational
view without any counterbalance of normality.
First of all, what is your response to that?
Nothing to do with you. I'm just asking what your response is. That's the first thing. Yeah, it is nothing to do with me. The fact that a 14-year-old girl took her life is truly sad. The world we live in today,
is
Thank you.
The fact that something like that happened is almost mind-blowing to me. That's truly sad. I actually feel sad inside to see something like that. The fact that they just said it's romanticizing the gory element. I don't know what she was watching, some kind of suicide...
I don't know where these things are created. Do you think the tech companies should be much tougher about stuff like this?
I don't know what kind of things she watched, obviously. I have to be a professional here. I think that the tech companies need to do their best to protect people, I guess, to a degree. But it's a slippery slope, isn't it? And then they use...
this slippery slope to silence some people and to-- Right, and I think it's a really fine line. It is. It's a complicated line. It is. I was interested, when you did an interview with The Times, Hugo Rifkin, he's a very good journalist, but he did a big interview with him, and it was interesting to me, his conclusion.
because he kind of concluded that
Although he found a lot of the things he said
awful
and offensive and he didn't like them and he didn't want to be that kind of person that would say those kind of things.
nor could he actually work out exactly what you've done, which deserves
mass wipeout by all the tech firms. I thought it was an interesting conclusion. I don't know the answer to that, other than the reason I mentioned the Molly Russell case,
Not because that has anything to do with you at all, and I reiterate that. - Thank you. - I simply ask you this.
What has come clear to me in the interview is that a lot of things you say you wouldn't say now that you've said before. I'd say them differently perhaps. Yeah, right. So to me that's an acceptance.
not just that you want to get back on platforms, because maybe that was one of the reasons you were no platform, but that you've recognised and understood the potential harm
to the wrong kind of impressionable mind,
by some of the things you've said. Would that be fair? I think that's 80% fair. I recognize and understand that with massive fame,
you have to be more careful about being misconstrued. Like I said earlier, 1% of people misunderstanding you doesn't matter with a small audience. It matters with a very large audience. With power comes responsibility. I still believe the things I say. I do not want to be a negative force for the world. I also understand that I am a man who's lived a very difficult, nuanced life.
and I am capable of making nuanced points that may be misunderstood by teenagers.
However, that can be said about anybody and everything. Every opinion online can be misunderstood by children. Trying to protect children from the Internet is a very interesting subject in and of itself, because I would argue that 80% of the content on the Internet can be negative or detrimental to a young mind that doesn't understand the world. I'd argue that all of it. We just talked about music videos and dancing on the devil and all this stuff. All this stuff is dangerous. By the way, I think you make a very good point on that. A lot of these rap stars, the lyrics, the videos,
I think, far exceed anything that you've been accused of doing. Completely. Because in a lot of cases, some of them promote non-consensual activity with people, right? And I just think that crosses a line you have, as far as I've seen, you haven't crossed that line. No, I haven't. And this is the thing. And I've been vilified, not because of the things I say, because much more extremist content already exists on the internet. I think the reason I've been attacked and vilified is because of the popularity, because I became so massively famous, not because of what I was actually saying. So, as a professional, I analyze that and I understand that, okay, I'm massively famous now.
and things have been taken out of context. However, I still do believe I'm a force for good in the world.
And I'm not going to sit here and say... Have you changed, though? It's not about changing. Well, it is. We're all involved in evolution. How old are you now? I'm 36. 36, right? I bet you're a different person to what you were when you were 26. Oh, that's absolutely... So we all change. And Mike, you keep talking about being a good person. Yeah. I think if you're honest with yourself... Yeah.
that you can see why people found a lot of the stuff you've said
problematic and misogynist. And I think you've recognized you wouldn't express yourself in that way again because you've understood that it's caused a lot of harm. And that's really,
Really what I wanted to get to today was an acknowledgement by you that these things clearly
were said in the wrong way,
created the wrong impression, if you didn't mean them the way you intended them, and can therefore have a malevolent influence when you have a huge following. Yeah, when you have a huge following, you certainly have to be a lot more careful about how you get certain points across. That's absolutely a fact. Andrew, I appreciate you coming all the way from Romania. Thank you. It's been an interesting conversation, and I thank you for having it. Cheers, Frank. Well, that's it for me. Whatever you're up to, keep it uncensored. Good night.