Transcript
- Ready to break the internet, friend?
How are we going to break the internet?
You said you wanted this to be impactful.
What would that look like to you?
That's a really good question.
I think a lot of people are interested in my journey. I think a lot of people are interested in
how it feels to go through what I'm going through. I think there's a lot of people who want me to
A lot of people are living vicariously through me.
There's a lot of people who say, "Yeah, Andrew, keep going." But they don't really care, they just enjoy the drama of it all.
And I think I've already broken the internet, but you're a very interesting man to talk to. And with your insights, I think together.
we're gonna have quite a large audience. Yeah, I mean that's a question that I have for you. Why did you want to talk to me? Because I'm a psychotherapist, you have your skepticism about psychotherapy and yet here I am.
That's true. We had a conversation before and it was I've been told by many people it was my most interesting podcast ever.
Thank you.
So I think it obviously varies from the norm in terms of the normal things I'm asked about, you have some unique insights.
And I thought it'd be an interesting conversation. A lot of people are asking me especially about my mental state and those kind of things post-jail.
So I thought, well, my most interesting podcast ever. People seem to be very interested in that side of me.
So perhaps it can be a good conversation. - Does it make you nervous that there may be things that you don't know about yourself that I'm gonna try to reveal to you? - I know everything about myself, my friend. - You know everything about yourself. - I believe that I have a intimate grasp of all the things about myself which matter, which allow me to compete.
So there may be things I don't know.
but I'm not sure if I particularly need them.
So I'm not that interested.
Right.
what's useful is more important than what's true. Absolutely. Right, and you've developed a framework of thinking about yourself and thinking about reality that's been incredibly effective for you. Completely. What's useful is more, you nailed it, what's useful is more important than what's true.
Do you like to make people
Think what you think.
Like, like what, like, because you have a lot of influence.
Yeah. And that's got to feel good. You're influencing people. You have this worldview. It's a powerful worldview. It's got all these things. And so you want to influence other people in some way to adopt that. I think that charity, even of itself, I think charity is probably one of the most selfish things you can do, which most people say, I'm giving money. I give $25 million a year.
There's a website, takepledge.com, you can see it.
and I feed children all across war-torn countries, mainly in the Islamic world.
and in Africa.
Am I doing that for the children? Yes. But I also feel great.
I feel good.
for doing that. - Of course. - So it's not a selfless act. - No, nothing selfless.
Nothing's selfish. And it shouldn't be. And it shouldn't be. That's right. So when I'm helping all these people out here, I'm not doing it because I'm some philanthropist.
I feel good.
helping people and people sending me emails saying, you changed my life. I feel good about it. I'm not going to sit here and pretend I'm just Mr. Philanthropist and I just care about the world. No, I like helping people because I feel good about doing it. It makes me feel good inside. Yeah.
which is why I do it. So yeah, I use my power to feel good.
And I think the best, the easiest way to feel good is to make others feel good. I believe that humans exist that way. And I think that's why we're societal animals, even in jail, when I felt my worst.
My goal was to make someone else smile.
Because if I can make someone else smile,
I would smile. So on my worst days, I was my most charming, my most energetic, my most interesting, my most talkative. Yeah.
I was happiest on my worst day because I decided that's how I have to be.
to stop myself feeling bad.
Do you struggle between...
I mean, your will...
is very strong. And I can feel the place where you like to impose your will in the world. So your will versus God's will.
Well, he'll win. Are you in a fight with God? On some level, not literally, but unconsciously,
between his will and your will? - No, I think I am doing his will.
I think I'm doing his will, which is what it takes to
be truly successful in the world.
I do believe that the moral arc of the universe does bend towards
Truth.
That's not my saying. I think that's Martin Luther King's.
But I think that it bends towards truth and justice in the end.
I think that the battles we are currently fighting in society
which look hopeless in the end can be won.
And I feel like I am doing his will by standing up and telling the truth. I think I'd have to be a complete coward of a man to end up having
all of the masculine youth of a planet paying attention to every word I say and then say, "Oh, but if I tell them good things, if I help them and help the world by extension, I might get in trouble." That'd make me a bitch and that's not who I am. So I think if you give any man worth his salt that degree of power and influence and responsibility, he's going to stand up and say, "Okay, this is how you should live as a man."
and this is how you can make the world a better place. Unless he's afraid of the repercussions
by the evil people, by the people on the other side who are genuinely evil and satanic who are out to destroy good and truth.
And I'm not a coward. I've never seen myself as a coward. And in fact,
we don't talk about vulnerability, the number one thing I could never exist as is a coward.
I think that's you won't talk about my biggest fear.
it would be knowing I'm a coward. How are you making sense of what's happening to you?
Is it God's will?
Is it--
a co-creation? In some way did you co-create this? Or are you just like a victim of the Matrix? No, I'm not a victim.
So,
Absolutely everything is. I believe in some way you're a victim. Completely. But I believe in self accountability. Sure. I could have prevented this. Well, how did you co-create this? If.
If let's
Presuppose you did. I co-created this by being monumentally successful.
Are you taking on the full responsibility that you have given all of the gifts that you've been given by God?
Is there any place where you're not taking on responsibility for that?
No, I think I take care of absolutely everybody I love in every single way. I think anybody who's ever needed me, I've been there for them if they've deserved it.
I think anybody who listens to my message is becoming a better person overall.
I genuinely believe I'm fixing and helping society.
I don't know what else more I'm supposed to do. I mean, to a degree, I've almost martyred myself. What else more can I do?
My options at this point are either to continue to help people and explain to men why I became so successful, which is all I'm basically doing.
I'm saying you're a man and you're upset and you want to be X. I'm telling you how I became what I wanted to be. This is what I did.
My general consensus is that
I don't think I can change or
affect the world to the point where
pain and suffering and bad things are not going to happen.
So isn't it best if I just enjoy all of that?
Doesn't that make me as powerful as possible if I say, oh yeah, okay, this is going to suck, good.
I mean, I do it when I fight. Yesterday I was fighting, right? We were doing 12 rounds and all of us were destroyed. And the more he hurt me, the more I want to hurt him back.
The more he hurt me, the better it felt. The more powerful I felt, the more he hit me.
Because then it's my turn.
Right? So if I can't stop him from punching me and I'll do my best, but if I can't,
then surely you should learn to enjoy it, right? And I don't think you can stop life from hitting you, and I don't think you can stop life from giving you unexpected surprises, and I don't think you can stop yourself from feeling sometimes sad or anxious or upset.
So I think the best mindset you could adopt is
finding that
engaging and exciting, I'm not going to lie to you.
Although I am facing very serious charges, and although they are trying to destroy my life, and although I cannot sleep the same, and although they're out to get me, and although I've suffered...
Part of me is excited.
Part of me is like,
- Okay. - Why? Because it's a war.
But you said you were excited about it, so maybe there's some way you actually wanted this. I didn't want this. In fact, I had conversations with Tristan for a long time, and I kept saying Icarus.
to him.
When I would decline, I would decline certain podcasts. I would decline meeting certain famous people. I would decline talking about politics. I would decline things and I would keep saying Icarus.
And he would say, why are you doing this? And I just replied, Icarus. Because I knew if I got too big that they were going to come for me. I knew that.
So I tried to balance it and I felt like I did a pretty good job, but unfortunately I got it a little bit wrong.
my fault, I got it wrong, I put myself here.
But I also don't believe that there's any light without dark. It's yin and yang for a reason.
I don't think that I can just become the most googled man on the planet, become monumentally successful and make hundreds of millions of dollars and nothing bad is going to come from it. I think that would be hubris.
I wasn't looking for it.
But I was never-- - Did you attract it in some way?
Well, if you are a force for good, then the evil is going to attack you, isn't it?
And I do genuinely believe this is the battle of good versus evil in the world today. I believe that truth is always going to be on the side of good.
I am religious. I believe the things I say most people knew were true only 10 to 15 years ago. I don't think they're radical ideas.
And I think that there is an evil force in the world, which is extremely deceptive.
and they are out to try and silence me.
not because what I say is wrong. It's in fact, because what I say is right. I believe the reason I have so much influence and the reason so many young boys listen to me and pay attention to me is because I say things that are true, that they know intrinsically, evolutionarily, inside of their bones is true. That I say things which work,
People often wonder why my fan base is so
feverish why my fan base is so dedicated well if they listen to me
it's the first time they ever feel good. The first time they ever train hard and start to feel better physically and they start to feel better mentally and they adopt my mental model and now they're not stressed or depressed anymore.
And then they may start to make some money and they go, you know what? I started listening to Tate a year ago. I'm in the best shape financially, the best shape physically, the best shape mentally.
takes the man.
They're hyper dedicated to me.
And,
Yeah, I mean, there's there's going to be a negative to that. I've been I want to make something clear. I've been
brutally aware
of the fact that all of this might blow up in my face.
for a very long time.
I've not been ignorant to that. And I think that's why jail didn't cause me pain. Because I wasn't in jail like, how did this happen? I was in jail thinking,
They got me.
I knew it.
They've been after me for a long time.
I knew they were coming.
Is that enough?
Is that all I have to say?
-
- Thank you.
It's been good fun.
I feel like I've learned some things.
And I feel like we need to do it again.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that was fun. I appreciate you, man. Thank you, bro. Thank you.