Transcript
I want to turn to the wall.
between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.
What is...
your view of this war? I think when you
call it a warrior doing a disservice to the people who are having their limbs blown off by some of the most advanced technical weaponry on the planet. It is a genocide and it is disgusting and it doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you fall on. When you observe a genocide in front of your very eyes, you should be
- Disgusting. - Which side is waging genocide? The Israelis are genociding the Palestinians, and you know it as well as everybody else does. Well then it seems like your bosses are not allowing you to know it. What do you think of what Hamas did on October the 7th? Why are you starting the story in the middle, Pierce? I just asked you about the wider war.
I'm now asking specifically about Hamas. I cannot professionally answer that question without talking about the context that led up to October 7th. Well, nothing to my mind justifies what happened on October 7th. Nothing justifies what happened before October 7th appears. This is the exact point. So you're talking to a man. I don't know what answer you expect from me, because let's forget the fact that I'm a Muslim. You're talking to a man who is fighting oppression to the best of his ability because he believes that the people in charge of the world are enslaving us all to the point where I detriment my own life.
I would do if my family was blown to pieces? You're not in a jail, hang on. You're asking me what I would do if another government came along and blew my family to pieces? Andrew, you weren't put in a jail cell because of any oppression. Absolutely I was. No you weren't. Of course I was. You were put in jail cell because you've been accused of serious sexual crimes. I would not have been accused if I was not monumentally successful in speaking the truth. Let me ask you again. It's a simple question. Some people can answer it straight away, including pro-Palestinian people I've had on my programme. Many are very quick to say absolutely.
Do you believe Hamas are a terror organisation? And that's a very interesting question, but I think you're peddling assinities. Well, just answer the question.
Can somebody do me a favor, Google "assininities" and find out if it's a word. I know what it means. If it's not, make sure it's added to Webster on Top G's orders. Okay. Just, are they a terror group? You're peddling assininities because I'll tell you why, Piers. Let me answer the question. No, I'm not. Of course you are. It's a simple question. That's like me assing. I'll tell you why I asked, because the UK where you were born,
prescribes Hamas as a terror organization. They also prescribe me as dangerous to children in schools. Let me explain something to you, Piers. You're not prescribed as that. If I were to sit here and say, "Is stealing wrong?"
And you'd say yes and I'd go, ah, but what if the person stealing is trying to feed their family and if they don't, their family are going to die. Is it still wrong? You're trying to take a very nuanced and complicated argument and reduce it down to one sentence, which is failure. You're trying to equate stealing.
with a mob of terrorists breaking over a border, going to peaceful... Is that what Israel did? Wait a minute. A mob of terrorists breaking over a border and killing people. Is that what Israel did? Going through a border on October the 7th and massacring...
young people at a festival,
Massacring families in their homes in a kibbutz, setting fire to them, cutting their heads off, killing babies. Oh, killing 40 babies, that was true. -Well, fine. -Were the babies vaccinated?
Why are you being flippant? I'm not being flippant. The point I am making... I don't find that funny. No, but the point I am making is that the media lies, firstly. Secondly... I can ask you... We can ask... I can ask you about different things at the same time, right? Sure. So I'm asking you, first of all, specifically,
What is your reaction to what happened on October the 7th? Sure, I'll answer the question professionally. I do not condone the loss of human life on either side. I think anybody doing anything which directly damages civilians is disgusting and abhorrent. However, I would be an amateur if I could not sit and pretend I do not understand the motivations behind either side. This is not even me taking a side. I understand why Israel is doing what it is doing. I understand why Palestine is doing what it is doing.
the abhorrent and genocide. - Okay, we're gonna come to Israel's actions, I promise you. We will ask that question specifically.
But in terms of what Hamas did on October 7th, do you accept that was an act of terrorism? It's an interesting question. It's not really. It is. It's a very straightforward question. Because you're the person who would have called Nelson Mandela a terrorist while he was still in jail. And one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. I wouldn't have thought of that. Yes, you would have.
For me to answer the question, I have to be very professional, Pierce. For me to sit on the outside in Romania with no personal involvement in Israel-Palestine, it's easy for me to say, yes, it was an act of terror. However, if I was in Gaza, if I was in an open-air prison, if my family had been annihilated by bombs from the sky, if everybody I knew had suffered the loss of a loved one, if I had no chance of any kind of freedom or democracy or standard of life, would I believe it was an act of terror, or would I believe it's an act of resistance against oppression?
You have to be very careful how you answer these questions.
I think I understand what happens when you take people and put them in such an inhumane condition. For anybody to sit and say that you're going to take people and put them in absolutely inhumane conditions, and give them no standard of life, and they're not allowed to ever fight back or they are terrorists. -Anyone who does that is an amateur. -I can agree with you.
that the plight of the Palestinians for many decades has been absolutely shameful. So what did we think was going to happen, Piers? No, nothing justifies what happened on October the 7th. So what are they supposed to do? Nothing. So what are they supposed to do? That was an act of medieval barbaric terrorism. Nothing justifies it. And you're attempting to try and equivocate. Did they suffer acts of medieval barbaric terrorism before that date?
Yes, and it's unfortunately an eye for an eye in this world. I'm not condoning. I'm being a professional and answering to why it happened. Give me one example of where Israel
without any provocation, went into... No, wait, a specific question. Went into Gaza and massacred 1,500 innocent people, cutting their heads off, taping and boasting about what they'd done back to their families in Israel, kidnapping Holocaust survivors,
bringing, they wouldn't of course have done that in their case, kidnapping old grandmothers and bringing them back to Israel, kidnapping babies, kidnapping children. When has Israel actually gone in and done something of the scale of October the 7th? There's literally endless examples of that. Give me one. In 2014 they were bombing civilians. No, no. Pierce, let me tell you something. I'm not talking about, I'm not talking about what they were categorized as retaliation for rocket strikes and there's an arguable point.
As there is, for example, I'm vehemently against the expansion of the settlements on the West Bank. I think there are legitimate questions about the proportionality of Israel's response here. - Yeah, legitimate questions. - But in terms of what Hamas perpetrated on October the 7th, there is no, no, no instance of Israel doing that to the people of Gaza. - First thing first... - And you have to accept that. If you don't accept that, you're either deluded or you're deliberately not wanting
to say the obvious, which is that was an act of terrorism, because you're concerned about upsetting people in Palestine. Is that the case? Let me go back to my first point when I said you're peddling assinities.
The reason I said that is because to look at a situation, no matter how heinous, and to ignore all of the context and pretend that you do not understand why said situation happened,
Nothing justifies terrorism on that scale. Nothing. It is asinine. No, it's not. It is. Because it's not about justification, Peter. Let me tell you why. It's not about justification. It's about understanding the realities of the world. Let me tell you the reality of the world. Hamas came to power in 2005.
Hamas's initial founding charter made it clear that they are for the eradication of Israel. And on October the 7th they proved what that means is they will kill every Jew they can get their hands on. They are an existential threat.
to people in Israel and to Jewish people. And that is, I'm afraid, the purest personification of a terror group. I also think by doing what they did,
as they have done since 2005, they weren't representing
innocent Palestinian people in Gaza. Who are suffering now. They knew, yes, but Hamas knew when they did what they did that Israel would respond the way they did and thousands of innocent Palestinians would get killed. They knew that and they still did it.
So my question for you is why can't you, which is my position on this, is very straightforward.
What Hamas did was an act of terror.
an absolutely despicable act of terror and should be called exactly what it is. And they are now demonstrably a terrorist group. That is why they were rightly prescribed that by the UK and America and other countries. And to try and pretend they're not makes you sound like Jeremy Corbyn. I can't think of a worse insult to throw at you, right? So... I don't think me and Corbyn agree on that. But I also think there are legitimate questions to come about the way Israel's responded. We can come to that. But I just want to ask you one more time.
Is what Hamas did on October 7th an act of terrorism? I think
Pierce.
It is peddling assinities for you to pretend that enslaving people... You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. No, let me answer the question. 15 times he refused to answer the question. Let me answer the question. You're now about three or four. Are they a terror group or not?
They're one team's freedom fighter and they're deemed a terrorist group. What do you think? I think that if you lock people in an open-air prison and steal their land, they're going to retaliate. So they're not a terror group? I think they're going to retaliate. They're not a terror group? One team's terrorist is a non-team's freedom fighter. Okay, we're now talking about eight. Are they a terror group? And also, another thing I want to make clear to you, Peter. Only Jeremy Corbyn has done this? Done what? I don't know.
refuse to answer the question.
I think that what they are doing is seemingly deemed an act of terror by the people that the terror... Don't use weaselly words. They're not weaselly. Of course the Israelis think they're a terror group, and of course the Palestinians think they're freedom fighters. It's stupid that you're asking the question. Most of the civilised world thinks they're a terror group committed an act of terror. It's not difficult. What they did was an act of terror. And I think that if Israel continues to conduct acts of terrorism on the Palestinian people, they're going to do nothing but strengthen the reaction. That's a different conversation I'm about to have with you about Israel's response.
But before I get there one more time,
Is Hamas a terror group who committed an act of terrorism?
I think that when you lock people in an open-air prison, you're going to have to expect a retaliation. No, because I have to... There's people who are... Firstly, first things I want to say, Peter. You don't mind me saying, I think it's spineless. Sure. I do. That's fine. You sound like Jeremy Corbyn. Well, that is an insult. Did you see my interview with him? No. Right. Fifteen times last week, I asked him the same question. Fifteen times, he prevaricated and wouldn't answer. Eventually, when someone does that enough times, you know what they really think. Okay. You don't think they're a terror group. Let me answer without being interrupted. You don't think they're a terror group. No, what I think is this.
Because I'd be really curious what you think an act of terror is, if it's not massacring
1,500 innocent people, including Holocaust survivors, -Pierce. -Kidnapping babies, decapitating people, cutting their limbs off, raping women. Yeah, talk about missing limbs. We're going to talk about that when we talk about what Israel have done. But when we get there, it'll be in the context of you not admitting that was an act of terror. Well, let me answer the question for the final time.
I am a realist.
And as a realist, sometimes you do not come to the conclusion of labelling good guys and bad guys. The world is not black and white. - Oh, Hamas and bad guys? The world is not black and white. The world is actually very grey. Anybody who sits and thinks there's clearly a good guy... - Nothing grey about what Hamas is. ...and clearly a bad guy does not understand how the world works. And as a realist, what you do is you look at scenarios and you understand why they happen, how unfortunate they are, how unfortunate the loss of human life is, how civilians die on both sides, how innocents are dying in a chess game played by the elites,
Both sides you have innocent people who didn't even vote for the person making the decisions, who are ensuring their death, signing their death warrants. It's unfortunate on both sides. Okay. But listen.
Sir.
you would not advocate russia doing any of the things to ukraine that israel is doing to to
to Palestine. You would not sit here... Russia has been doing exactly that. Russia has not done a fraction of the things to Ukraine that Israel has done to Palestine. Russia illegally invaded a sovereign democratic country and has committed a barbaric rampage
trying to seize as much of Ukraine as it can,
bombing maternity hospitals, killing innocent women and children. Let me ask you a question. Don't even try and have some kind of... No, no. This is genuine question. I will. A Hamas rocket, a tiny Hamas rocket that can make a pothole in the road, and then they get hit back with cruise missiles. Let me ask you a question. Ukraine sent a drone and hit the Kremlin. A drone attack. It did nothing. It damaged some shingles. If Russia decided to then respond with a missile attack on a hospital and annihilate 100 people, do you think that would be allowed? Exactly what it has been. Would you advocate for that?
Have you seen the state of Mariupol? Would they level to the ground? The Ukrainians did level it, you're correct. No, the Russians did. 2014.
The Russians level Mariupol. And my question to you is would you advocate those reactions? Let me ask you another question. It's a genuine question. Let me ask you a question because I want to understand your point of view. It's actually my interview of you. Yeah, but you tried to understand mine. I just want to understand your point of view.
if
If I believed, or if Israel believed, that one of the people in your house was a terrorist, and decided to destroy your entire house and kill your entire family, would you sit and say, well, maybe there was a terrorist inside, I accept that? Or would you be enraged?
Genuine question. I don't think you can take an individual person's response. Well, it's a bunch of individual people in Gaza. They're people, individuals with thoughts and dreams and aspirations which are being annihilated. 15-year-old girls without legs because of cruise missiles. They are individual people. They're not cattle peers. They're people. Right, and so were the people in Israel on October 2nd. And that's why it's so heinous, which is my exact point. But not heinous enough to reach your bar of terrorism.
It's not about reaching moral terrorism. It's understanding why things happen. By not saying it, you've made your position clear, just as Jeremy Corbyn did.
And to pretend you're any different is ridiculous. Let's move on to Israel's response.
because there are legitimate questions about this. Hamas embeds itself, 35,000, 40,000 terrorists in my estimation, you can call them whatever you like.
and they're embedded amongst the civilian population predominantly in northern Gaza. We know from intelligence over the last 20 years, which you won't believe because the Matrix has made it all up, but we know from intelligence that historically Hamas likes to embed itself, particularly around things like schools and hospitals and mosques, because that makes it more difficult if the Israelis attack.
Now,
Israel has killed nearly 12,000 people in its response, right? There are many people around the world
demanding a ceasefire, who think that is a ridiculously disproportionate response to what happened. Well, if it was genocide, they would want to kill everyone in Palestine. They don't.
They just want to drive them all out. Whereas Hamas do want to kill every Jew. That is actually what genocide is. You know what's actually interesting? Because you've spoken about this subject with people more...
who actually understand the conflict better than I do. Muhammad Hijab understands it better, Loki understands it better. I'm talking from a very general humanistic perspective.
Because I don't understand that absolute intricacies like they do. Do you know what genocide means? Of course I do. Genocide means you want to eradicate an entire people based on race or ethnicity. Israel clearly doesn't want to do that to the Palestinian people. Clearly not. If it did, it wouldn't tell a million of them, as it turned out, who moved south. Now, there are arguments about whether... To attack them as they moved. Well, some people got hit as they moved. Oh, some people got hit. Yes. Some people got hit. You know what, Andrew? You know what happens? You know what, Andrew? Wait till it's your son, sir. You know what? Wait till it's your son. I agree. And you know what, Andrew?
War is horrific. It's horrific. The question is, is it a just war for Israel to go after Hamas? And if it is, and you believe as I do, that Hamas has to be got rid of, how do you do that? If you don't do it the way Israel is doing it, how do you get rid of that terror group? Now, you won't agree with anything they're doing because you can't even categorize them as a terror group. No, the reason I won't agree with them is because I'm a human, Pierce. Please let me answer this without being interrupted.
without proving my point. Which question? The question about the fact that if they decided to cruise missile your house because they thought somebody inside was a terrorist, you would not accept the loss of your family that you have raised. You would not accept that. Of course I wouldn't. Okay, absolutely. So, let me answer this as a professional.
What's funny is I'm a humanist. A professional what, by the way? The professional. Please let me answer. What are you speaking of? I'm a professional. And I'm talking about this from a humanistic perspective. And like I said, you've talked to people more knowledgeable than me on the details of the subject. Listen to me very carefully. Okay.
I thought we lived in a democratic society. You just had 35,000 Hamas terrorists. And this is the thing that's most upsetting to me. This is what genuinely upsets me. Israel intelligence will say a guy's a Hamas terrorist. Has that guy gone to a court of law? Has there been a democratic process? Has he been proven to be a terrorist? No. They've just decided from their intelligence that couldn't see an invasion coming from hundreds of miles away. So this intelligence is not great. So they've decided this person might be an intelligence without court case, without any kind of democratic process.
civilians along with him and it's all just collateral damage and nobody should care.
That is not a humanistic perspective and that is disgusting. And any person in the West who is advocating for that is a hypocrite. If it was turned on them. If the American government said, we think the person in your shopping mall, one of the people you were shopping alongside in the mall, might have committed a crime. We didn't take them to court. We think they might have. So we killed your whole family. Get over it. He's a clown and a hypocrite.
families and leave them locked in an open air person. And we respond. The last time that Jewish people faced an existential threat was in World War II.
and the Nazis
who wanted to take over the world and kill every Jewish person. The Nazis were ultimately defeated by Winston Churchill leading the Allies,
and Winston Churchill, in the process of defeating the Nazis, killed a lot of German innocent civilians in the process. Do you think that was justified? Let me ask a question. I asked the questions. Was it justified?
I believe, and let me just get this right in my head. Yeah, think about it. No, I don't need to think about your question.
I believe that the Nazis, which were obviously heinous, I'm not advocating anything they did, it's disgusting, the Nazis. I'm glad we beat them. I'm actually a huge fan. Were they terrorists? Yeah, they were. Right. So I believe that they were... So when you massacre Jewish people, you're terrorists? Except when you do it in Israel. When you try and conduct genocide on a populace because you don't want them on land you say is yours...
then you are terrorists. - That's exactly what Hamas did on October 7th. - Exactly what Israel had did before that. So you've literally just described what Hamas do. - You just described what Israel do. They're trying to genocide the Palestinians as we speak. And this is the exact point. - So Israel... - No, but to see your... - Hang on, do you think Israel are terrorists?
I think that what they're doing now is disproportionate and genocidal. Is it terrorism? It's genocidal, so I guess that makes it terrorism. It's genocidal. So they're terrorists for responding to an act of terror, but the people who committed the act of terror are not terrorists. The way in which they're responding is not proportionate. You see the problem in that argument? No.
Really? Pierce,
What they are doing now... Slaughtering 1,500 people in the way they did it is not an act of terror by terrorists, but a response from the people on the receiving end.
rather like the response to the allies in world war two to what the nazis did that apparently is the only act of terrorism didn't you say 12 000 people the israelis have killed thus far yes
I saw a video of a 15-year-old girl with no legs begging to die. She was begging to die saying, I have no future because my parents are gone or my legs are gone. It's horrific. I have no future. No, but you say that, right? You talk about numbers and statistics, and you say a few people got caught. You don't think of Gazans, and you don't think of Muslims and Palestinians as individual people. Oh, yes, I do. No, you don't. Oh, I do. Oh, I do. If you did, you would not be happy with what's happening here. Don't you dare say that about me. Well, OK, but don't put them together in numbers. No, no, no. They're not numbers. They're people. I've spoken for many years about the plight of the Palestinian people.
Israel has any control over their ability to function with water, with fuel, with other energy and so on. Food and so on. That's interesting. So if you were in Gaza as a Gazian male, a masculine,
fighting age and you believe the things you currently believe, what would you do about it?
I'm just asking. You know what? Nothing justifies the terrorism. I never said you'd be a terrorist. I'm asking what you do. No, no. I understand why people in Palestine feel oppressed. I understand why they want freedom. I understand why they want the same rights as the people in Israel. Then here's a perfect. On that. On that we agree. Absolutely. But nothing. But nothing. Nothing justifies what happened in October. Well, here's where we here's where we disagree. Because as a professional, when we both agree on the point that the people inside of Gaza are being oppressed and their life is being detrimented and that they have no way of getting out. Yes. We,
As a professional, I understand pressure cookers explode. You're pretending they shouldn't. You're saying that they should never explode. Nothing bad should ever happen. You're saying nothing justifies terrorism. We should just be allowed to subjugate them for endless years and nothing happens. And I'm a realist to understand that pressure cookers explode. And that's what happens. We need a solution to the problem or it will continue to happen. You're not a realist because actually you are not accepting that what they did on October 7th
was an act of terrorism by terrorists.
You won't accept that. You think actually they're freedom fighters doing some kind of resistance. And I say that is ridiculous and shameful.
That's the difference between us.
I understand that pressure cookers explode, Pierce. Right. So you think it's perfectly reasonable. What happened? I don't think it's reasonable. I think it's a shame. Natural consequence. I think it's a shame.
A shame, that's it? I think it's a shame that we're living in the world now where people are reduced to basically suicide. To try and fight for freedom for their families if they have one left. Because they all committed suicide, those men who did that. They didn't have a chance of survival.
That's because they believe that they're marching themselves and going to have a better life. It's because when you oppress people to the point where their family's dead and they have nothing to live for.
And I think that's a shame. So do you support Islamic fundamentalism? Absolutely not.
Do you spot an Islamist...
ideology? Absolutely not. Right. What I support... So why do you support Hamas? I support justice in the universe. You support Hamas? I support justice in the universe. You support Hamas? No.
- You don't? - Well, I don't know the ins and outs of Hamas's creed. - I have to be very honest with you. - Well, you know what they did in October 7th. - Do you support them? - I understand why that happened.
And I'm saying it's a shame. But you won't denounce them. I say it's a shame. Will you condemn them?
I can't sit here and condemn the obvious outcome of consequence. Really? How can I condemn? You can't condemn Hamas for what they did. Well, we know what's going to happen.
And we need a solution. You're very quick to condemn Israel's response, but you won't condemn the terror attack which prompted it. No, I'll tell you why. Even though Hamas knew by doing what they were doing, that would be the response. Do you think they knew that? Of course they knew that. Do you think they knew the Israelis? They did it quite deliberately. You know why? Because they were funded and supported by Iran. They didn't like the fact that Israel was normalising relations with a bunch of Arab countries, from the UAE to Bahrain to Morocco, and then coming down the line
view of what should be happening in that region. Iran are the ones who support and fund and arm Hamas and they clearly in my estimation, it hasn't been properly established yet, but clearly Hamas couldn't have done this on their own. They've done it with support from Iran and they've gone and committed an act of such heinous atrocity that they knew what the response would be and that means that they sentenced in that moment not just 1500 people in Israel to death in the most appalling manner possible, but they also sentenced to death
thousands and thousands of innocent Palestinians, including many innocent children, because half the population had children, and Hamas knew that was what was going to happen. So my question is, how can anyone think that Hamas is a force for good for the Palestinian people? I didn't say they're a force for good. They are a force for evil. No, I didn't say they're a force for good. I said it's a pressure cooker and it's a shame. You won't even condemn them. Let me ask the question.
Do you think if we gave the Palestinian people basic human rights that Hamas would find it more difficult to recruit new soldiers?
Thank you.
Yeah, look, I think... Probably. Probably if we treat them like humans, this won't happen. So we agree and let's move on. I think there's a real danger in the scale of Israel's response that you radicalise a whole new generation of Palestinians. I think that's a real danger. And by the way, I've said that. We can agree on that. So perhaps it was Israel's actions before October 7th that radicalised the soldiers who invaded. So you agree with me. So let's move on. No, I don't.
No, nothing justifies what they did. Let me ask you about the reaction that you've had from
certain people who I think at one stage
you had a good relationship with. One is Jordan Peterson and the other one Ben Shapiro.
Let's talk about Jordan first. Sure.
You've had a bit of a to and fro with him, but what is your view of him? I think Jordan and I actually agree on many issues. I think the enemy of my enemy is my friend. I think we have a lot more in common than we have
that we disagree on.
We have different views of the world on certain things. I think we approach him from different places. He's far more...
in his mind whereas i've been more in a physical realm than he does i have nothing against jordan i don't dislike him i do find it and i must be honest a bit disingenuous and hypocritical that he speaks mental strength and then ends up addicted to an antidepressant i don't think you should ever take antidepressants ever i've been through worse than what he's been through and i didn't take a single drug
However, I have nothing against a guy. He says very intelligent things, and I'd be interested to argue with him or discuss or debate with him, but I think we'd actually agree on most points, to be honest with you. I don't think we... I mean, he may be unhappy with somehow...
how I've lived my life and some things I've done, but we've already discussed the fact that I come from the lowest income area of the UK, and most people around me were selling drugs, so at least I didn't do that. So I'm not going to allow somebody who's a professor in a university who's had an easy life come along and tell me how people from the streets should survive. You have to find a way out. Let's get rich or die trying.
But I have nothing against a guy.
I just think that he's been a bit hypocritical. And then, truthfully, the only time I've been genuinely a bit appalled by any of his actions was the tweet he made on Israel-Palestine when he said, give them hell.
I know that's an easy thing to say and it's an expression that people use and they throw it around flippantly.
But I think when you actually wish hell,
upon other human beings, I think it's a disgusting thing to do. Because hell is that 15 -year -old girl with no legs, and her parents were dead. And when you see her crying her eyes out, begging to die, that is hell. And I don't think you should genuinely wish hell on anyone, Israel or Palestinian, either, anyone. I'm a humanist. I don't want anybody to die. And when he was wishing hell on an entire population... He did express regret for the way he phrased that. And he should, because it's disgusting. I've not wished hell on the Israelis. I've not wished hell on the Israeli state.
18 -year -old
18-year-old Palestinian girls going through.
Not a single one. He said about you, Jordan Peterson, I'm not particularly happy to be grouped with Andrew Tate. I think there are some elements about what he does that are quite reprehensible.
I'm sure he has. I don't know everything he says, and he may disagree with some of my point of view. As I said, I have nothing against him. I don't think anything he says is particularly wrong. I think that he's hypocritical because of the antidepressant problem, and I think that the fact he wishes hell on other humans because he gets emotionally involved in a conflict, which within two minutes of it sparking off, he's wishing genocide, I think that says a lot about his personality. But overall, when he speaks at length, a lot of the things he says are pretty well thought through and pretty constructive. I have nothing against the guy.
Listen to Ben Shapiro, he says, "Let me assure you, as someone who has not pimped women and bragged about it, that morality requires that those who rape women and kidnap women must be eradicated, not negotiated with." He says, "On my show, I won't be lectured on morality and toughness by Andrew Tate.
His great idea of toughness and morality is pimping women and bragging about it on air, and then trying to quasi walk it back
while simultaneously maintaining many of the same positions and flexing his biceps
Listen, everyone should be able to tweet whatever it is they want, and more for an open discourse, even with people who I think are dead wrong on a lot of issues. But Andrew Tate is dead wrong on a lot of these issues. And the particularly ridiculous posturing about being a, yes, you're very tough when you want people to make peace with terrorists who just murdered their children. Very, very tough.
What do you say to that?
I said, "Ben, as a man who's done his own fighting,
Because I've had a life of pain and violence. Listen to me. Peace is always worth a conversation. What I said is that we should always be prepared to at least discuss peace. He, because he's a warmonger, said, no, peace is not worth a conversation. You're this, you're that, da-da. Because he's always sitting behind his desk. He must have a booster chair, and he's always running his mouth trying to invoke violence and call for war. And I find it kind of hypocritical because a man who's so small he would die if he was slapped on the street,
I think is kind of
It's worse than the critical. It's insane. I believe if he was sitting here listening to this, he would say that what he's screaming for
is for Jewish people
in Israel, but to defend themselves. And he's a Jewish man. All Ben does is call for war.
And I agree.
Defending yourself. That's all he does. That's all he does. And calling for war and call and defending yourself is very different than genocide and Ben like I said overall.
Most of Ben's worldviews, and mine, probably align. We don't align on the religious sect, we don't rely on the religious points, fine. But our overall worldviews about how society should function probably align on many of the key issues. I don't have a beef with Ben, and I don't watch his show, and I have no idea what he talks about a lot of the time. But what I do know is every time I turn it on, he's calling for someone else's son to go and die in a ditch somewhere for his interest.
And I don't like people who are not advocates for peace. "Blessed are the peacemakers," said Candace, who is far more intelligent than Ben will ever be. And she is completely right. He replied that rhetoric, starting an argument with me, when I said we should talk about peace. I say we should talk about peace. He calls for the death of civilians, and somehow we're asking why my point of view is seen as abstract.
It's insane. Why can't we all just sit down and say the fighting must end?
Why can't we do that? Why can't we sit and say, "Nobody should be dying. Let's stop using the most advanced military weaponry on the planet to blow the limbs off children."
Why can't we say that without being deemed some kind of terrorist sympathizer or anti-Semite? It's insanity. Trump came along and didn't start a single war. He's the only one who didn't. And they're going to come along him and make him a bad guy when a new president comes in. It's just endless war and death and killing. Have you seen a dead body, Piers? Have you seen people lose a fucking limb? It's disgusting. I know what's happening over there. Have you seen that? I don't need to tell you about the parts of my history that I'm not prepared to share, Piers. You've seen people? I said it to bed.
people bleed out in the street from a stab wound are not going to be so smart and so quick to sit behind a desk and call for the death of innocent people.
It's disgusting what's happening. I don't want anyone to die on either side. And when I come along as a peacemaker and say, this is insane, because he's a warmonger, because he has chosen blinkers and sees one side of the argument and refuses to accept the humanity of Palestinians, he says I'm a bad person for calling for peace. Well, you know why? Because he'll probably listen to this interview and say, this guy can't even describe Hamas as terrorists.
if ben shapiro thinks bad and if you don't think what happened to the people in israel october the seventh is an act of terrorism i not just say then you are i want all people then you are just you are just as partisan to one side as you believe ben shapiro did i not just say i want all people to start dying stop dying pierce don't interrupt this it's two sentences
I want all people to stop dying. However, I understand what is going to happen when you create a pressure cooker. That is my answer, and it's extremely professional. I don't want anyone to die, and because I don't want anyone to die, because I'm a peacemaker, because I'm a humanist, I understand you cannot lock people in an open-air prison for an undetermined period of time without...
provoking terrorism. So out of interest, what would you have done if you'd been Israel after October the 7th?
That's a really interesting question. And I think there's people who are more qualified than me to answer. Given that Hamas last week said we're going to try and do the same thing again and again and again.
what would you do to defend the people of Israel? Good question. They have the Iron Dome, which is largely effective.
I think that their border security is usually effective. It's very interesting that it wasn't on the table. So you would say they would do nothing other than tighten up security? I think if I was truthfully, I'll answer the question.
If I was truthfully in charge of Israel, I would have found out how our border was penetrated. I would have made sure that was impossible to do. I would have had large conversations and discourse during that period, which would probably take weeks to ensure that my border was impenetrable because we were at no genuine threat of a repeat attack.
And then I would make it clear that there will be some repercussion unless...
Unless there would be some repercussion, unless we can come to peace terms. I don't think the... Hamas doesn't want peace. Of course not. But I'm saying. That's fine. That's their stated position. Of course. Of course. So there's nothing going to be in peace with Hamas. Okay, but you're asking what I'd do. I would have found out, first things first, I'm a man. So first things first, you fix the problem. Okay.
Our borders have been penetrated. How do we make sure that doesn't happen again? How did it happen? Internal investigation. Let's make sure the border is secure. Now our civilians are safe. Our civilians are safe, which buys us time. Let's have a conversation to see if we can actually reason with a mask. If we can't, then there might be some military intervention. But there certainly wouldn't be bombing hospitals, cruise missiling refugee camps. There wouldn't be any of the things that's going on now. Absolutely not. You wouldn't try and attack the people that do that? No, because this is a rushed and emotional response.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I would have prevented. I would have made sure as a man I didn't make a rushed and emotional response. So you'd be more like Neville Chamberlain.
trying to do peace with the Nazis and Winston Churchill trying to kill them.
Well,
Yeah, that's an interesting question. You're an appeaser, not a warrior.
Well, I still think I'm a warrior, but I think that when you're a warrior, you have to be very capable and... That's what Neville Chamberlain's view was. We should do peace with the Nazis. You have to be very understanding of your power.
and you have to use it responsibly. And just like I said earlier, when I'm trying to be responsible about what I say to the young men of the world, I would understand as Israel I must be responsible with my massive military might to make sure I don't kill civilians. And I would sit and try and make a measured response, and I'd be a professional, and I would consider them human beings, and I would secure my border and try and come up with a plan better than, "Oh no, I'm mad, I'm emotional now, let's go kill everyone." I think that's the wrong response. Correct. I don't think that's the right thing to do.
We've spent a long time talking. You're going to find out
at some stage today or in the next few days, whether you're going to get your possessions back, that will either happen or not happen, but then there's likely to be a trial.
And that will determine how you spend the next 10 years of your life, almost certainly, which is a sobering thought for anyone. When you look back on the whole arc,
of the last few years.
you've expressed some regret because of your turning to Islam, your changing
your philosophy from a religious perspective, you've acknowledged that some of the stuff you used to do was immoral.
Do you look at the journey you've gone on here and think that in a way,
notwithstanding the matrix and everything else, that maybe you yourself could have done things differently to avoid being in this position. Absolutely. I'm a man and I take absolute self accountability.
You have to, as a man, your superpower is looking in the mirror and understanding everything that happens to you, both good and bad, to a degree, is your fault. It could have all been influenced. I could have avoided all of this. I could have avoided the matrix attacks. Oh, sorry. I could have avoided jail cell, if you don't let me use that term. I could have avoided all the negative press. I could have chosen to work in Starbucks and just stayed nobody.
I made choices that put me in this position. I take responsibility for them. I said things on the internet in a satirical way on videos that got 110 views when YouTube was brand new that I did not expect to become the most viral videos in the world because I didn't expect to become the most famous and...
known person on the planet. That's all true. I'm not saying I have no part to play in any of this.
However, I can still say that I'm completely innocent. I can still say that it's only my fame and notoriety that has inspired the prosecution service to try and even put me in jail in the first place. I can still say that there's some unfair policing in the world, depending on your political views. I can still say all of those things while accepting absolute responsibility for the situation I am in.
Andrew Tate, thank you very much. Thank you, sir.
Thank you.